Mike - were you able to find a compressor map for your Boss Turbo?
What intercooler and how much CFM capacity did Cartech advise you go to?
What intercooler and how much CFM capacity did Cartech advise you go to?
some intercooler questions
- Thread starter malloynx
- Start date
i wasn't able to find a compressor map; however i was told that my turbo flows 75lb./hr. i really don't nkow what that means. also cartech says they have nothing for me with the power i'm making. i think the guy said an 18 inch long intercooler would work, but it need to be 3.5inches think.
tisk tisk for being lazymalloynx said:
... i say to hell w/ the cartech unit.. time for 95mm tb + ffi + 3" pipes + LARGE IC :naughty: :biglaugh:i'm actually fairly amazed you make the power you do, on your current set-up
jdub, this is what found.
http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages/compressor_images.asp?ml=compressor
click on the GT66. i run an ITS 67MM compressor wheel, this is the closest i can find.. let me know what you think
http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages/compressor_images.asp?ml=compressor
click on the GT66. i run an ITS 67MM compressor wheel, this is the closest i can find.. let me know what you think
malloynx said:
I think you meant 75 lb/min
That is equal to 930 CFM...yes, that will over flow the Cartech if it's the one I'm thinking about. You have the 18" x 8" x 3" bar & plate intercooler, correct?
The 75 lb/min may be at the max psi the compressor is capable of...you're are running 24 psi (or 2.67 Bar). The compressor map for your housing & trim would be useful to determine what your actual CFM flow is at that psi.
In any case, your TB is going to restrict you once you start to exceed the critical velocity...that's going to occur at the intercooler CFM limit you have now (547 CFM for that Cartech). You can go above this, but you will get a compounding increase (it's not linear) in pressure drop and will reach a point pretty quickly where you're achieving no gain.
I still think you should still consider just changing the 2" to 2.5"...at least you'll know the restriction will be the TB. Doing this backwards at 540 HP, it would require 810 CFM of flow...I don't know how you're doing it Mike, but that's shit hot. Must be that theory vs reality thing again
Velocity at that flow through a 2" diameter opening is 618 ft/sec with a 3.61 psig pressure drop. If you open up to 2.5" velocity drops to 396 ft/sec with a 1.29 psig pressure drop. Your TB diameter will produce a 444 ft/sec velocity and a 1.63 psig pressure drop...not too much of an increase considering the effect the 2" diameter openings are having. Give the 2.5" change a shot...shouldn't cost that much and not any downside
I also saw you're in on the BC 264 cam group buy...that's going to help your top end
All you guys care about is compressor size. That's flat wrong. Malloy your car
is running out of steam at high RPMs is the same reason that big compressor'd
CT-26s run out of steam. You're not getting the air OUT of the car. You
have a _SMALL_ Stage V wheel on the back. It's the same reason the wimpy
SP61GT runs out of steam. The smallest wheel I sell is an "O" Trim, and that is
in my smallest turbo, the JT56Lightning, The P-trims flow way more, and that's
why all my other turbos have a P-Trim. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time
since I haven't had my MKII running, and I hate telling people anything without
immediately having hard core proof to back it up, but I feel the restriction in your
setup is the stage V wheel. It's not the stock exhaust manifold (altho that is a
restriction too), and it's not the intercooler (but that's a restriction too), in my
opinion, it's the exhaust wheel of the turbo. The housing itself is a great piece,
but the wheel is just too small for what you want it to do. Maybe I'll shut my trap
again for a while until I get my MKIII and start dyno testing all my turbos to show
people what I mean.
The SP61GT uses a 61mm GT compressor wheel, and a stage V T3 exhaust
wheel, the JT56Lightning uses an older .57 trim compressor wheel (much smaller),
design but uses an O, or P-trim exhaust wheel, and it makes the same or more
power than the SP61 and it comes on sooner. I'm working on a deal to get a
new SP61GT in a trade, and I'm gonna post dyno results once I have the extra
cash.
Jeff
is running out of steam at high RPMs is the same reason that big compressor'd
CT-26s run out of steam. You're not getting the air OUT of the car. You
have a _SMALL_ Stage V wheel on the back. It's the same reason the wimpy
SP61GT runs out of steam. The smallest wheel I sell is an "O" Trim, and that is
in my smallest turbo, the JT56Lightning, The P-trims flow way more, and that's
why all my other turbos have a P-Trim. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time
since I haven't had my MKII running, and I hate telling people anything without
immediately having hard core proof to back it up, but I feel the restriction in your
setup is the stage V wheel. It's not the stock exhaust manifold (altho that is a
restriction too), and it's not the intercooler (but that's a restriction too), in my
opinion, it's the exhaust wheel of the turbo. The housing itself is a great piece,
but the wheel is just too small for what you want it to do. Maybe I'll shut my trap
again for a while until I get my MKIII and start dyno testing all my turbos to show
people what I mean.
The SP61GT uses a 61mm GT compressor wheel, and a stage V T3 exhaust
wheel, the JT56Lightning uses an older .57 trim compressor wheel (much smaller),
design but uses an O, or P-trim exhaust wheel, and it makes the same or more
power than the SP61 and it comes on sooner. I'm working on a deal to get a
new SP61GT in a trade, and I'm gonna post dyno results once I have the extra
cash.
Jeff
Mike - I'm not sure if that map accurately depicts your set-up...it's a combination of the wheel and the housing. You are flowing about 65 lbs/min to get to the HP numbers you have. On this map at that flow and pressure ratio (24 psi / 14.7 SL atmospheric pressure = 1.63), that flow is to the right of the compressor choke line...it exceeds the max flow this compressor is capable of.
Edit: Take a look at this link...it's more geared for how to select a turbo, but explains what the maps mean pretty well:
http://www.automotivearticles.com/Turbo_Selection.shtml
Jeff - What your saying is correct concerning the turbo's capability. But Mike has this turbo and is trying to get the max out it possible. Yeah, he may be hitting that already (I'm still impressed). I'm just trying to help figure out if his intercooler/pipe diameters is holding it back a bit...and based on what I see...it is. The question of the day is how much
Edit: Take a look at this link...it's more geared for how to select a turbo, but explains what the maps mean pretty well:
http://www.automotivearticles.com/Turbo_Selection.shtml
Jeff - What your saying is correct concerning the turbo's capability. But Mike has this turbo and is trying to get the max out it possible. Yeah, he may be hitting that already (I'm still impressed). I'm just trying to help figure out if his intercooler/pipe diameters is holding it back a bit...and based on what I see...it is. The question of the day is how much
According to Suprasport.com Mike's turbo should be good up to 675HP... Maybe we should email them a copy of this thread to see if they will reconsider this statement? .
.
I think you also have a problem moving air through the manifolds. They are only so big. Extrude hone ftw.
I think there's a rumor going around that suprasport should be completing a new stock-like manifold that's ct-26 compatible, along with it's bigger, upgraded cousins .
.thanks for all the info guys. it's much apperiated. i will say this... the bolt-on turbo is staying. i going to workout this intercooler setup and go from there. One step at a time.
jdub, thanks for the technical data. i know people that TIG. you think i should try that route?
jdub, thanks for the technical data. i know people that TIG. you think i should try that route?
malloynx said:
Yeah...I would. Like I said, what's the down side?...not a heck of a lot other than the cost of pipe and time to TIG. See what it does for you...if it's still not meeting your expectations, start looking at other mods. I bet you get a HP gain...how much is the question
Are you running a standalone Mike or piggybacks on a stock ECU?
malloynx said:i'm running the maft-pro. also i want to add that my lower intercooler pipe is only 2inches
imagine the possibilites
I am...oh yeah I am :evil2:
Change that pipe to 2.5" too...like I need to tell ya that...LOL
Try some bigger intercooler piping, maybe a ebay intercooler, and some cams( if u want). It will help keep some more power up top. I know you can get the 2.5 or 2.75ic piping off ebay for a decent price.
That is where i picked mine up.
It should help
good luck bro.
That is where i picked mine up.
It should help
good luck bro.
Do you have the GTS cover on your stage V BOSS? the outlet on the compressor for the GTS is 2.25" iirc and the standard compressor cover is 2". So either way, 2.5" lower pipes should net you around 25-75 HP along with the change of the IC inlets & outlets (rough guestimate).
CryoSlash said:yes it is! for the power you are at, running a 2 inch is no better then the stock ic. well anything is better then the stock IC but you get my point. Justin is right here, it is only as good as its restriction. Time to go 3 inch buddy
but it has been proven that 2.5 flows BETTER for our cars then 3.0 it's on a thread here somewhere IJ even proved it.
After he fixes the lower pipe and the IC issues the next restriction is the TB. Until he get's something bigger there it will be pointless to go any larger than 2.5"