some bottom end questions

[Bri7man]

I've been suggested .020 bore&hone, .010 on crank journals if you want to view pics of everything I have them here, http://s373.photobucket.com/albums/oo175/Bri7manx/3rd times a charm/ labeled "6,5,4"...etc.

I want to go with this kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-9...Accessories?hash=item414a1d5794#ht_3596wt_775

I have $500 for parts and machine work. My blocks completely stripped and ready for the machine shop.

Are main cap journals usually ground in the process of rod knock repair?

Will I be fine with acl's?

Should I order .020 oversized pistons/rings in the kit, .010 main and rod bearings and have them take that much off. Or give them my block/crank and tsrm clearances and let them tell me what sizes to order.

2nd choice seems a lot better to me but let me know what you think. I have no measuring devices I trust enough to make any decisions with so no measuring will be done by me.

Let me know thoughts, opinions, advice. I want to do this smooth and efficiently.

I'm ready to get this done!

 

[lewis15498]

Have machinist determine how much overbore is required, buy said pistons based on requirement, give pistons to machinist.

 

[Bri7man]

thanks Lewis

 

[black89t]

give your block and crank to the machine shop. they will let you know what needs to be done. they are most likely going to go bore the block so you can start with nice round and straight bores. the crank is the one where often it can be left alone besides a polish to be on the safe side. if you remember in adjusters "assembly" thread he states that if you can do nothing to the crank. they have a coating on the journals that once ground is gone...



oh and i don't really understand your question about the main caps. usually if anything the rod and its cap will get trashed. i have had a 7m rod knock on me to the point where it wore through the bearing then it began to destroy that #5 rod. then i have had one that i caught in time that just the bearing got slightly destroyed but the rod and cap were fine. it should be obvious if the rod is done.

 

[Bri7man]

I caught it right away, just as I heard it I garaged her. Doesn't seem too bad at all. I guess the machine shop will let me know tomorrow the minimum that needs to be done.

The knock was from me not torquing down #3 rod cap for some reason. I don't know how I could of missed it but after 15 minutes of driving after setting my engine in I heard it and when I pulled the pan I could tighten the rod bolts with my finger.

No damage to that particular journal and bearing but slight wear on them all which was there before. Plastigage checked out before I dropped the motor in and I only drove a block before i heard the knock and pulled the engine again.

I was having doubts about whether or not I could trust my machine shop and heard some stories of people getting shit jobs done on the forum, but I'm just gonna give them the tsrm specs to go by. They seem legit even though I haven't seen many foreign engines the times I've been there.

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

I caught it right away, just as I heard it I garaged her. Doesn't seem too bad at all. I guess the machine shop will let me know tomorrow the minimum that needs to be done.

The knock was from me not torquing down #3 rod cap for some reason. I don't know how I could of missed it but after 15 minutes of driving after setting my engine in I heard it and when I pulled the pan I could tighten the rod bolts with my finger.

No damage to that particular journal and bearing but slight wear on them all which was there before. Plastigage checked out before I dropped the motor in and I only drove a block before i heard the knock and pulled the engine again.

I was having doubts about whether or not I could trust my machine shop and heard some stories of people getting shit jobs done on the forum, but I'm just gonna give them the tsrm specs to go by. They seem legit even though I haven't seen many foreign engines the times I've been there.

That's enough for me to look for another machine shop.
I was having doubts about have my car repaired at a certain body shop cause I heard some stories of people getting shit jobs done at school. I took my car there anyway and sure as shit... they gave me a shit job. True story.

 

[black89t]

dude you have to go somewhere else if you already think they're sketch and you haven't even been there yet. i live in like the middle of know where and we have a local machine shop that has up to date equipment and are well known around town. then agian this other one that did the work on my buddy's sc 5.0 shaved his head on a fucking broach. :aigo:


needless to say both of his cometic mhg leak under high boost. :3d_frown:

he stipped the teeth off third though so he's focusing on his vett now.

btw bri7man $500 for parts and machine work is going to be tough to do.


gl on whatever you decide to do.

 

[IJ.]

give your block and crank to the machine shop. they will let you know what needs to be done. they are most likely going to go bore the block so you can start with nice round and straight bores. the crank is the one where often it can be left alone besides a polish to be on the safe side. if you remember in adjusters "assembly" thread he states that if you can do nothing to the crank. they have a coating on the journals that once ground is gone...



oh and i don't really understand your question about the main caps. usually if anything the rod and its cap will get trashed. i have had a 7m rod knock on me to the point where it wore through the bearing then it began to destroy that #5 rod. then i have had one that i caught in time that just the bearing got slightly destroyed but the rod and cap were fine. it should be obvious if the rod is done.

Please don't get all butt hurt and defensive but this is a perfect example of why if you don't actually know you shouldn't post in tech...

The Cranks aren't "coated" with anything, they are however induction hardened at the factory and this process is about 15 thou deep so 10/10 on the Rod and Main journals is no where near the soft inner material, any deeper than that aand you need to have it rehardened.

I caught it right away, just as I heard it I garaged her. Doesn't seem too bad at all. I guess the machine shop will let me know tomorrow the minimum that needs to be done.

The knock was from me not torquing down #3 rod cap for some reason. I don't know how I could of missed it but after 15 minutes of driving after setting my engine in I heard it and when I pulled the pan I could tighten the rod bolts with my finger.

No damage to that particular journal and bearing but slight wear on them all which was there before. Plastigage checked out before I dropped the motor in and I only drove a block before i heard the knock and pulled the engine again.

I was having doubts about whether or not I could trust my machine shop and heard some stories of people getting shit jobs done on the forum, but I'm just gonna give them the tsrm specs to go by. They seem legit even though I haven't seen many foreign engines the times I've been there.

:nono: Bare minimum the Rod needs to be resized as it's big end will be out of round.

You NEVER buy the parts first unless you've already measured the bores and have some concept of how deep any imperfections are or how out of round, likewise on the Crank journals, the 7M is a bit involved as the factory used a select fit bearing system based on both the ID and OD of the bearing shells so to make the correct choice you need to know ALL of these measurements before buying the shells.

 

[Bri7man]

That's enough for me to look for another machine shop.
I was having doubts about have my car repaired at a certain body shop cause I heard some stories of people getting shit jobs done at school. I took my car there anyway and sure as shit... they gave me a shit job. True story.

I'm just not sure, the surface job they did on my engine seems to be holding, but I have no way of checking their work. I think I feel insecure because I do not have the measuring devices to accurately check their work. Mainly because I don't have a real reason yet to not trust them.

dude you have to go somewhere else if you already think they're sketch and you haven't even been there yet. i live in like the middle of know where and we have a local machine shop that has up to date equipment and are well known around town. then agian this other one that did the work on my buddy's sc 5.0 shaved his head on a fucking broach. :aigo:


needless to say both of his cometic mhg leak under high boost. :3d_frown:

he stipped the teeth off third though so he's focusing on his vett now.

btw bri7man $500 for parts and machine work is going to be tough to do.


gl on whatever you decide to do.

Yeah it's gonna be tough but I have a feeling I'm going to just scrape by, I'm doing all the labor myself.

:nono: Bare minimum the Rod needs to be resized as it's big end will be out of round.

You NEVER buy the parts first unless you've already measured the bores and have some concept of how deep any imperfections are or how out of round, likewise on the Crank journals, the 7M is a bit involved as the factory used a select fit bearing system based on both the ID and OD of the bearing shells so to make the correct choice you need to know ALL of these measurements before buying the shells.

Is the ID and OD measurements apart of the tsrm measuring procedure? I need to be prepared to explain this to the machinist. I was going to have them inspect the rods to be sure they didn't get damaged like you explained.

 

[IJ.]

Yes, there should be a bunch of numbers stamped on the pan rail, they indicate the Main tunnel sizes.

Every now and again someone will screw the pooch on the assembly line and have to change out a cutter and you get an odd size tunnel or two, the better blocks are all the same number but they still have a range of sizes, my last block pictured was all 2's.

 

[CajunKenny]

Yes, there should be a bunch of numbers stamped on the pan rail, they indicate the Main tunnel sizes.

Every now and again someone will screw the pooch on the assembly line and have to change out a cutter and you get an odd size tunnel or two, the better blocks are all the same number but they still have a range of sizes, my last block pictured was all 2's.

I just bought and installed a standard size rod and main bearing kit. No machine work was done.

Even though all of the plastigauge measurements were within the TSRM spec, the tolerances are still not going to be as good as from the factory because all of the bearings I just installed are the same size. They're not size matched.

I don't recall what my block stamp numbers were.

It sounds like since I didn't get machine work done, I'm destined for premature failure with these bearings. I knew I should've bought them from Toyota! :3d_frown:


I just ran out and checked my spare block and it reads: 2222322

 

[Bri7man]

Yes, there should be a bunch of numbers stamped on the pan rail, they indicate the Main tunnel sizes.

Every now and again someone will screw the pooch on the assembly line and have to change out a cutter and you get an odd size tunnel or two, the better blocks are all the same number but they still have a range of sizes, my last block pictured was all 2's.

Mine reads 2 across the board like yours. What do you think of ACL's? They come with the kit I want to buy in OP and I just specify what sizes I need in the order.

 

[IJ.]

I just bought and installed a standard size rod and main bearing kit. No machine work was done.

Even though all of the plastigauge measurements were within the TSRM spec, the tolerances are still not going to be as good as from the factory because all of the bearings I just installed are the same size. They're not size matched.

I don't recall what my block stamp numbers were.

It sounds like since I didn't get machine work done, I'm destined for premature failure with these bearings. I knew I should've bought them from Toyota! :3d_frown:


I just ran out and checked my spare block and it reads: 2222322

What did the plastigauge say for #3?

Mine reads 2 across the board like yours. What do you think of ACL's? They come with the kit I want to buy in OP and I just specify what sizes I need in the order.

Ok for a moderate output engine, wouldn't use them if you're expecting to go over 400rwhp though based on what my guys at the crank shop here told me.

 

[Zumtizzle]

ACL's for sale now.

 

[Bri7man]

What did the plastigauge say for #3?


Ok for a moderate output engine, wouldn't use them if you're expecting to go over 400rwhp though based on what my guys at the crank shop here told me.

I actually didn't plastigage after I just pulled it because I figured I'd had enough and it was time for a full rebuild and get everything tip top.. I have the pistons and rods out now. :icon_conf

My goal is to get to 400 actually, but lex afm/inj, and a standalone are ways away.

I think once I get my motor back together a boost controller will be holding me for quite some time. Even before that I need to tidy up some components like hardpipes, new IC,rad, T-stat system and alt.

They seem fine atm for dding and the occasional run but I'd really like to upgrade.

 

[IJ.]

Plastigauge question was for Kenny.

 

[CyFi6]

I doubt you would be able to see a difference in the plastigauge between a size 2 and a size 3, theres only .0004" difference between the smallest possible "2" and the largest possible "3". according to the tsrm you can have a "2" and a "3" that are the exact same size ( to the .0000 place)

 

[IJ.]

I doubt you would be able to see a difference in the plastigauge between a size 2 and a size 3, theres only .0004" difference between the smallest possible "2" and the largest possible "3". according to the tsrm you can have a "2" and a "3" that are the exact same size ( to the .0000 place)

Hence my question.....

He may have been right on the high side of spec on the 2's and a 3 may have put it out of spec.

Don't know until Kenny answers but as it's such a small variation as you say it may not show up without a mic.

 

[CajunKenny]

My spare block and the one that's going in the car now are different and the numbers I posted are from my spare block. Sorry for the confusion there.

On my current build, all of the plastigauge numbers were within spec. I just didn't fully understand what the block numbers meant until reading IJ's post. I don't recall what the block numbers are on the current build.

I measured each bearing prior to install and they were all identical out to the hundreth's place and only one rod bearing varied by less than 1/2 a thou.

Being that toyota has stuff in spec out to 10 thou, I should do the same and I didn't do that. I just went with the Clevite Std. size and called it a day.

I did compare bearing edge measurements between the one's I pulled out (stock) to the clevites and didn't find any difference. However, my mic only measures out to the thou.

 

[black89t]

Please don't get all butt hurt and defensive but this is a perfect example of why if you don't actually know you shouldn't post in tech...

The Cranks aren't "coated" with anything, they are however induction hardened at the factory and this process is about 15 thou deep so 10/10 on the Rod and Main journals is no where near the soft inner material, any deeper than that aand you need to have it rehardened..

my bad. i was a little close to the answer. lol.

so IJ what bearings do you recommend for over 400whp?