Should I use MHG or Felpro?? decisions decisions decisions!!! need help

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

OK Ladies & Gents here is the deal,
I have a MINT 1990 Turbo but with a suspected BHG!!
I want to fix it and enjoy the ride... Last month, I paid a visit to John @ Broadway Performance to seek options for re-building the 7M-GTE with MHG... John gave me a quote that was way over the limit I set for the rebuild.
Don't get me wrong, John is great guy and a stand up business man, I have a great deal of respect for his shop and accomplishments in the auto service field..
As we all know MHG is the remedy for our cars, but it involves delicate head and block preparation in order to get the best result.. But it's costly!
I searched the forum for alternatives regarding OEM & Felpro head gaskets and found some positive feedbacks.

Now, here is my goal:
All I want from my Supra is to have a reliable car/engine and enjoy it in summers and on weekends. Not looking for crazy HP (although that was my goal, but changed my mind) or racing, just cruising and take trips.

So here is the question:
Do you guys think I should just rebuild the head and install the Felpro HG w/ ARP bolts while leaving the block in the car, of course change all gaskets, seals, belts, water pump , and wires & spark plugs etc. Torque it to 75 lbs?
This way I save the money I was about to spend on the MHG and use it to upgrade my brakes, rotors, and new tires.. and any other issues may rise after the build.

Feedbacks are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
PAUL

charlesshen · May 31, 2008

MHG always ive made the mistake of felpro before when i had a 7m do it once do it right or do it again in 12mths after the first bhg they just keep coming with any other gasket then metal

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

Even though if I keep it stock boost and turbo?
I agree, MHG is the way to go.. But to cost me about $5k for just rebuilding the head and installing a HG w/ARP and with new belts and gaskets and seals?
How much you think it should cost me by going OEM or Felpro?

CTsupra · May 31, 2008

paul0075;1038485 said:
How much you think it should cost me by going OEM or Felpro?

Going that route would cost you a 30 pack and a weekend.

Stock boost, or not, do it right the first time, or don't do it at all. Metal head gasket.

TurboFreak · May 31, 2008

Why rebuild the head? When I had BHG, I had the whole MHG and ARP's thing done at a shop and it cost me ~$1500. And I know I could've shopped around and gotten it for less. The car now has ~30k on the MHG...

EDIT: Not my white n/a in the sig BTW... ...The midnight blue built turbo 7M I sold to EdgeSupra over a year ago.

SilverSupraT · May 31, 2008

I have to disagree. If the block and head are flat but you don't feel it's good enough to put in a MHG I think OEM is just fine. Then again I've only rebuilt one 7M that way and got 40k plus out of it without a single issue.... The motor has since been pulled for a complete build so that's all the miles it has/will get with OEM.

Cliffs: MHG obv better, not always necessary.

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

I'm in the process buying a house, and my wife doesn't want me going too crazy with the build

I just don't want to drop that amount at this time..
I mean if the OEM gasket has gone up to 99K miles, I think another OEM gasket should do the same right? if done properly of course!!
My 1st car ever was an NA 87 Supra back in 1995, that car went all the way to 207K miles before the gasket blew..

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

Why rebuild the head? When I had BHG, I had the whole MHG and ARP's thing done at a shop and it cost me ~$1500. And I know I could've shopped around and gotten it for less. The car now has ~30k on the MHG...
____________________________________________________________________

Well I think I have to rebuild the head and that alone cost between $800 to $1000 + parts and labor.. you go figure..
I don't know how you got that price? very cheap..
But both the head and block surfaces should be very smooth for the MHG to seal right.. I wouldn't take chances without doing that

Poodles · May 31, 2008

I think we've all heard the same "it's only going to do stock boost" line enough times to know it's not going to stay the same after a while.

Do all the tests and see if the HG is even blown FIRST. Then save up for a MHG build.

Just the piece of mind is worth it IMHO...

charlesshen · May 31, 2008

paul0075;1038504 said:
I'm in the process buying a house, and my wife doesn't want me going too crazy with the build
I just don't want to drop that amount at this time..
I mean if the OEM gasket has gone up to 99K miles, I think another OEM gasket should do the same right? if done properly of course!!
My 1st car ever was an NA 87 Supra back in 1995, that car went all the way to 207K miles before the gasket blew..

i dont think it well last as long honestly if i were in you shoes and tight on money take head to machine shop buy felpro have friends over food, beer = cheap help save money for a 1j casue it well blow again and going 1j well cost less then 5gs you were going to spend and youll have better gas mileage,more power and a metal head gasket

TurboFreak · May 31, 2008

paul0075;1038511 said:
Well I think I have to rebuild the head and that alone cost between $800 to $1000 + parts and labor.. you go figure..
I don't know how you got that price? very cheap..
But both the head and block surfaces should be very smooth for the MHG to seal right.. I wouldn't take chances without doing that

1. Why specifically do you need to rebuild the head? Making noises or something?
2. Just busting your balls here but how does it cost $800-$1000 BEFORE any parts have been bought and any labor has been done...

Poodles · May 31, 2008

Why, so the stock turbos can blow and cost him more?

Sorry, but the 1J is not the best option, as it's still and old, abused junkyard motor.

FYI, my head rebuild cost me $600, but the head was pretty warped...

Justin · May 31, 2008

From what I've read going with a felpro and ARP studs should be a good base for a max of 400 HP. It doesn't sound like you'll ever want to exceed that.

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

TurboFreak:
I knew you were teasing with the prices

The engine sounds very good and runs smooth.. no unusual noises or knocks.
The guy I bought it from told me when he was driving it the engine steamed a little and the temp went close to the H mark, he stopped right away, filled with antifreeze and drove it home for about 4 New York blocks and never drove it since.
He asked his friend a Toyota mechanic to check the engine and he told him its leaking by the main seals and by the timing belt area.
I brought my mechanic before I bought the car to look at it, turned on the engine and he determined it's a BHG.
I never drove it since I bought it. However, I attempted to start it last month and it started right up, but with white smoke from the exhaust.

I would not go 1JZ and get stuck with a used engine wit only few people who know how to repair it and/or wait for ever for parts in case something breaks; not to mention it will cost way more than $5K.

Thanks guys.

TurboFreak · May 31, 2008

Ok now for my opinion...

Seem's like you are on a budget so I'd just do OEM and ARP studs. That's what I'm doing to my 92' at the moment...
Take the head to a machine shop; have them check it out. They'll determine if the head needs to be rebuilt or not. I would guess it doesn't. You should also get them to resurface the head.

I got the head resurfaced and cleaned for $65 and Champion Toyota (google it) in Texas has OEM hg's for ~$75 plus shipping. Take a day or two and look up the TSRM online and follow it step by step (except for the torque specs for the studs) and just knock it out. Shouldn't cost more than about $300 (not including replacing the rest of the gaskets like you mentioned)

PS: Make sure to retorque the studs though!!!

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

TurboFreak · May 31, 2008

Well then!
First, nice looking car!
Second, You NEED to make sure it has a BHG. That smoke in the vid looked black at times and also looked like it had some bluish tint... and it wasnt even that much smoke.
Both of my cars that have had BHG have POURED white smoke out the back.

Does the smoke smell sweet? Hows the underside of the oil cap look? Milky? Hows the dipstick look? See any signs of coolant on it? Drain the coolant. Does it look to have oil in it?

paul0075 · May 31, 2008

TurboFreak;1038539 said:
Ok now for my opinion...

Seem's like you are on a budget so I'd just do OEM and ARP studs. That's what I'm doing to my 92' at the moment...
Take the head to a machine shop; have them check it out. They'll determine if the head needs to be rebuilt or not. I would guess it doesn't. You should also get them to resurface the head.

I got the head resurfaced and cleaned for $65 and Champion Toyota (google it) in Texas has OEM hg's for ~$75 plus shipping. Take a day or two and look up the TSRM online and follow it step by step (except for the torque specs for the studs) and just knock it out. Shouldn't cost more than about $300 (not including replacing the rest of the gaskets like you mentioned)

PS: Make sure to retorque the studs though!!!

That's exactly what I want to do, OEM + ARP torque to 75lbs.
When you say resurface the head, does that mean take a layer from it?
I own the TSRM and Electrical diagram books for 1990 Supra!
See, here is the problem, I live in an apartment and the Supra is parked in the driveway under the cover, I don't have a space to work on it that's why I will take it to my mechanic who knows Supras.
I just wish that Broadway Performance wasn't so expensive, they would charge me $2500 labor for taking the head, get it done and put it back on while changing other gaskets, seals, water pump, belts and wires/plugs.

TurboFreak · May 31, 2008

Resurface meaning making it silky smooth and making sure it is flat. It'll probably take a little bit off of it but no biggie.

So your apartment place doesn't allow you to work on your car? Or you just have no tools? If the latter is the case than look up some of the other Jersey supra guys! There are tons of them and I'm sure at least one or two would help if you fed them or something.

Rennat · May 31, 2008

if your spending 5k to rebuild a motor, i hope to god its getting forged internals with that... im UNDER 3k and i have forged internals, fully balanced, arp main studs, arp head studs, im talkin i went all out. you can do an OEM rebuild for EASILY under 3k as it wont need that much machine work, and if you just get the arp head studs and the MHG you'll be set for whatever you throw at the engine!

Should I use MHG or Felpro?? decisions decisions decisions!!! need help

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