San Francisco, shame on you.

Charlie97L

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well, this whole thing is probably a result of some rich people feeling that their kids were being harassed. a similar thing happened with the private high schools in the DC area, where the military was trying to persuade (at least my alma mater) them to let a recruiter come on campus. Apparently, whoever it was was calling every day, twice a day sometimes, trying to get someone to allow it.

now that's a private school, not a fed funded school... BUT, even in federally funded, i think they need to stop short of intense pressure. present the info, let them think about it.

when i was unemployed last year, I went by the navy office to see if I could get a job as a noncom or some non-field position. But my vision and allergies are so bad, they wouldn't take me for anything! They said I could go to OCS for an admin position, but that really didn't interest me.

i don't know where i'm going with this, i just know that depending on who you deal with, different recruiters have much different attitudes... probably the guys in SF are so worked up about the lack of results there that they stepped over the line, much like the situation with my alma mater.
 

americanjebus

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the recruiters at the schools consist of a small pamphlet rack in the counselors office.

thats all i've seen at both the high school and college. except at the college we just have a bigass poster.

so what if its not in schools, who cares, someone who is going to school and doesnt want to join wont no matter how much publicity there is, those who do want to join arent going to get drawn in by it either, they are already likely to do it.

its the same argument as violence in movies and kids killing people, kids kill people cus they originally want to, not cus bruce lee told them to stab them.

liberals keep a balance between democracy between individuals and the overall republic views for hte whole.

you guys argue that your out fighting for freedome from tyranny, oppression, yea soldiers are fighting for freedoms as a nation.
liberals are at home fighting for your educaiton, healthcare, and your freedomes within the nation.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Nothing like being lectured to by those that don't even read their own propaganda pages.
Note that the schools (Including colleges) are any that use federal money.

So this law is toothless you say? I don't agree.

Let's put this in easy to understand terms. Ones even a Liberal mind can comprehend.

The same military you just "toothlessly" banned from your federally funded schools ensures you even have the right to vote this silly law in effect.

That same military protects your freedom of speach.

That same military protects your freedom to assemble in protest.

That is the same military you just pissed all over. Why not burn a flag in celebration of your victory over the oppressors of your childen.... those that defend freedom in the country you live in, but take for granted every day.

The line that Liberals are fighting for healthcare and education really is a great one. (Like all propaganda, it's best to stick to really absurd ideas that go completely against the facts.)

Healthcare for everyone scream the Liberals of the world! Just take a good look at the socialist governments around the world where universal healthcare is a reality, not just the cry of oppressed liberals.

Let's do just that.
How about The Netherlands? Or England, Germany and France? They have wonderful healthcare right?
Oh, sorry about that chap, you need a new liver? Get in line, perhaps in a few years your surgery date will come up. Got cancer? Well, again, get in line, and when your number comes up, we can get around to you.
Oh, and the choices your going to have in healthcare! You get to choose from the lowest paid group of Doctors in the world, and as you all know, you get what you pay for.

Yes, universal, socialist healthcare systems the world over are a marvel of modern technology... That is why ANYONE with a decient job, or income has SEPERATE HEALTHCARE PLANS in those countries. They know, if you need help, and you want quality doctors, your going to have to pay for it yourself. The state of healthcare in the USA is better than anywhere else I know of. Sure it's not cheap, but you get what you pay for.

Let's tackle education, shall we?

Ok, the liberals chant "We need more money for education" over and over and over... And so many years, they have been given more money, and done less with it every time.
Problem is so many teachers are inept, and undertrained. The ones that shine, and do great things are held up by those with "tenure" that can't be fired, and are basicly waiting for the pension plan to mature so they can quit protending to do something at work anymore.
Make teaching competitive, and pay the teachers who do great things, great incomes. The ones that are dud's, send them off to hold road signs in construction zones. That is not too difficult, and pays well....
Seriously though, treat teaching and education like a real business, and we would see AWESOME results in education with the current amounts of money we are spending now. Perhaps for even less.

Finally, in closing, you guys have to know that the rest of the world is laughing at SF and the silly attitude they feel is so superior to the rest of the country. (Ask any liberal, and they will proudly tell you they know what's best for you. Infact, they know so much, they need to protect you from yourself, you greedy consumer capitalist pig.)

Da Komrade.
 

MDCmotorsports

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Im not even going to read the rest of the 3+ pages, but personally San Fran Sissyco and all the fags and dikes that live there can go fuck themselves and jump into the sea.

I am still 100000% STUMPED why the rest of the nation for some reason seems to think that if San Fran Sissyco does it, it must be good for the nation.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Read the post just before my last one. Americanjebus accused/stated that liberals are really hero's fighting for our rights here at home while the great unwashed are off having a war in the hinterlands.


A good way to look at this is like a parent dealing with a petulant child who's throwing a temper tantrum. The child makes lots of noise, and throws themselves down on the floor, then complains that the floor was hard and cold, and it hurts....

Poor babies... please grow up soon and think about what you do before you just blindly go along with the herd. (In this case, a liberal SF hurd.)
 

Greg55_99

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Well Adjuster, I see you're a man of passion about what you believe. Please allow me to interject some of my own opinions amongst yours.

Adjuster said:
Nothing like being lectured to by those that don't even read their own propaganda pages.
Note that the schools (Including colleges) are any that use federal money.

So this law is toothless you say? I don't agree.

I think I've already pointed out that it's not a law, it's a proposal. It was placed on the ballot by citizens that are just as passionate as you are. They had to get a goodly number of signatures to get it onto the ballot (I'm not sure how many) and once on, it was voted on and passed by a majority. It is a non-binding proposal that the city council and the mayor (all elected representatives) may or may not act on. So whether you agree with the proposition or not, it was done "by the numbers". To me, this is what makes America great. Now, you not being a resident of San Francisco did not have the chance to vote on this issue, but, if you like, you can repeat this process where you live and get a proposition going to do whatever you feel like.

Let's put this in easy to understand terms. Ones even a Liberal mind can comprehend.

The same military you just "toothlessly" banned from your federally funded schools ensures you even have the right to vote this silly law in effect.

That same military protects your freedom of speach.

That same military protects your freedom to assemble in protest.

Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again. In my OPINION, it is not the military that protects my freedom of speech, assembly or protest. It is the Constitution and the Judicial branch of the federal government.

That is the same military you just pissed all over. Why not burn a flag in celebration of your victory over the oppressors of your childen.... those that defend freedom in the country you live in, but take for granted every day.

Well, I didn't hear him "piss all over the military", but if he wants to burn a flag, that's his right to do so. I never would, but, that's me.

The line that Liberals are fighting for healthcare and education really is a great one. (Like all propaganda, it's best to stick to really absurd ideas that go completely against the facts.)

Healthcare for everyone scream the Liberals of the world! Just take a good look at the socialist governments around the world where universal healthcare is a reality, not just the cry of oppressed liberals.

Let's do just that.
How about The Netherlands? Or England, Germany and France? They have wonderful healthcare right?
Oh, sorry about that chap, you need a new liver? Get in line, perhaps in a few years your surgery date will come up. Got cancer? Well, again, get in line, and when your number comes up, we can get around to you.
Oh, and the choices your going to have in healthcare! You get to choose from the lowest paid group of Doctors in the world, and as you all know, you get what you pay for.

Yes, universal, socialist healthcare systems the world over are a marvel of modern technology... That is why ANYONE with a decient job, or income has SEPERATE HEALTHCARE PLANS in those countries. They know, if you need help, and you want quality doctors, your going to have to pay for it yourself. The state of healthcare in the USA is better than anywhere else I know of. Sure it's not cheap, but you get what you pay for.

Actually, I have lived in Germany and spent considerable time in the Netherlands, Canada, Belgium and the UK. Not so much time in France though. Yes they have universal healthcare in those countries. Yes they have high taxes because of it. Yes, every citizen is guaranteed access to healthcare. You may think it poor. I think it's "adequate". I use that word because, in my OPINION adequate healthcare is better than NO healthcare. I just heard a commercial on the radio today that said 40 Million Americans have NO healthcare. I don't know how true that is, but, if you were one that had no healthcare, what would you do? Where would you go if you got sick? If you did get sick, would you really care if you got an "adequate" doctor as opposed to no doctor?

Let's tackle education, shall we?

Ok, the liberals chant "We need more money for education" over and over and over... And so many years, they have been given more money, and done less with it every time.
Problem is so many teachers are inept, and undertrained. The ones that shine, and do great things are held up by those with "tenure" that can't be fired, and are basicly waiting for the pension plan to mature so they can quit protending to do something at work anymore.
Make teaching competitive, and pay the teachers who do great things, great incomes. The ones that are dud's, send them off to hold road signs in construction zones. That is not too difficult, and pays well....
Seriously though, treat teaching and education like a real business, and we would see AWESOME results in education with the current amounts of money we are spending now. Perhaps for even less.

I wish this "liberal/conservative" label thing would go the way of the dinosaurs. We're all americans. I sounds like you have some good ideas on how to improve the educational system. How about ginning up a Proposition in your locale?

Finally, in closing, you guys have to know that the rest of the world is laughing at SF and the silly attitude they feel is so superior to the rest of the country. (Ask any liberal, and they will proudly tell you they know what's best for you. Infact, they know so much, they need to protect you from yourself, you greedy consumer capitalist pig.)

Da Komrade.


Acutally, the rest of the world as well as the US doesn't give a hoot about the proposition in San Francisco. Only Bill O'rielly does.

Greg
 

americanjebus

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Mar 30, 2005
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i dunno wtf just happend with adjuster, seriosly way to generalize every somewhat democrat / liberal whatever clique you wanna call it to be the same pothead hippie. stop trying to generalize everyone with a different opinion than you to be the same freeloading bastard that doesnt do shit.

unless you dont know, NO not all non conservative party members are the same.
it was an opinion, and i stand by it wether you agree with it or not.

look up TOLERANCE.

and where in the hell did i state that liberals are the ones doing all the fighting???

i'll admit im a liberal, sure generalize me if you want i dont give a damn
im a capitalist, if i can make more money than the next guy sure
im greedy, puppet of the system, i spend more money on my car than school
i vote even though the other 60% of the nation doesnt.
and yes, i support our troops,
and yes, i feel bad when my best friend cant get chemo therapy.
 
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Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
If your poor in the USA, you get free health care. (Even better if your illegal.) Nothing of course is free, the paying customers have higher bills to cover the costs of the non-paying customers. (Ask any hospital administrator.)

If I was without health care, I'd get a job. (First, I would not quit my job unless I have a new, better job lined up to replace it, and all my jobs come with healthcare/insurance.) If you want what I have, get an education, and work hard, and it's yours.

Tolerance is what the people of SF claim to be champions of, but fail to notice that by voting to ban the military from schools, they are being intolerant of others views to the extreme. AND they are looking like fools in the process. (Well, at the least, ungrateful bastards.)

Ok, you say courts and the law make it possible to have freedom? The courts and law in any country that has been taken in the process of war means exactly NOTHING in the face of military power. Let's be cynical and use Sadam's Iraq as an example. In the former Iraq, there is NO way Sadam would be tried for any of his crimes. In the new Iraq, thanks to the US Military, he is going to be tried for his crimes, along with many of his buddies who committed many nasty acts of brutality while he was in power.

SO, it's nice to think that lawyers and civilization can protect your freedom, but when the shit hits the fan, and your enimies are at the gate so to speak, you had better hope that your military is there to inforce the law, and protect your true freedom. Good chance if your biting/kicking/tauting and generally making life difficult for that same military, they will be less than interested in your plight.

Sure, this is not going to happen soon. It may take decades. Possibly even longer. But the attitude of the people in SF is a very dangerous position to adapt. No respect for the military, and you talk of them like they are your servants to do your bidding at the will of the courts. This will only be true as long as they belive your rule is just. When they come to see your rule as unjust, and unworthy, no building full of judges will mean squat to a squad of troops. (Just look at how many military coup's have come and gone throughout history.)

Even the USA was created with a military battle. We fought the British for what was percieved as freedom from oppression. This country has done great things, and had some setbacks, but it is not immune to the flaws that have brought down other great civilizations in history.

I belive there were some Roman Senators who were appaled at the fall of the Empire. I can only imagine them thinking that the courts and judges would protect them from the Goths and other attackers of Rome. (Good luck on the defense of your nation/freedom with a building full of corrupt judges.)
 

7MGTEJoe

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I'm not really sure why you're worked up about this. What ever happened to self rule? The people who live in San Francisco voted that they didn't want recruiters in their schools, so now they don't. Take a deep breath and a step back; you don't even live there and you're getting this worked up about it?

California is the primary economic engines of the nation and pays more in federal taxes than any other state. You could console yourself with the fact that the people of San Francisco pay more into the Military's budget than most cities in the nation. Or you could continue to elevate your blood pressure over something you have no control over...
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
Apr 6, 2005
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kwnate said:
The enemy within... Liberals:cry:
That's fuckin' right.

Adjuster-It is disheartening to know that people with such close-minded views live in our country. It's actually more along the lines of purely sickening. If they don't want to join the military, they don't have to. They can choose to not talk to a recruiter and go on about their business-just like I do when somebody tries to get me to buy a cell phone when I'm walking through the mall.

I've seen recruiters at the high school I graduated from but never once did I see them pressuring anyone or trying to "sell" something to those who did not care to hear it.

This is simply an example of the libs trying to cut off freedom of speech-bottom line. They have grown to hate some of our freedoms so much while taking advantage of others that they are willing to give up the freedoms we have. Instead of "letting it go" and ignoring something they don't like, they boycott, vote for new unconstitutional laws, protest, whine, complain and become intolerant of whatever it is that they're against.

"Ultra tolerance" is something they preach-too bad they don't practice it. If it doesn't go along with their views, they don't accept it-if it only stopped there.

Liberals are the ultimate hyprocrites and are constantly contradicting themselves by their actions. If they only knew how insanely stupid they made themselves look.

Aye Mate-Not all of CA is like this. I actually couldn't believe how many Bush bumper stickers I saw last year before the election when I went home to Oceanside. Without even counting, they clearly outnumbered those for Mr. Traitor Kerry.
 

Greg55_99

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Apr 2, 2005
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SP 7M said:
That's fuckin' right.

Adjuster-It is disheartening to know that people with such close-minded views live in our country. It's actually more along the lines of purely sickening. If they don't want to join the military, they don't have to. They can choose to not talk to a recruiter and go on about their business-just like I do when somebody tries to get me to buy a cell phone when I'm walking through the mall.

I've seen recruiters at the high school I graduated from but never once did I see them pressuring anyone or trying to "sell" something to those who did not care to hear it.

This is simply an example of the libs trying to cut off freedom of speech-bottom line. They have grown to hate some of our freedoms so much while taking advantage of others that they are willing to give up the freedoms we have. Instead of "letting it go" and ignoring something they don't like, they boycott, vote for new unconstitutional laws, protest, whine, complain and become intolerant of whatever it is that they're against.

Oh boy! It's the "conservative-good/Liberal-bad" thingie again. Let me put this issue in another perspective. The people of San Francisco decided to make up a "no-call" list for military recruiters in public schools. It does not abridge any recruiters from talking to students if they want to. They just don't want them doing it in public schools. It is not the law, it's just a proposal. They had a democratic vote and the proposal passed. It's still NOT the law. If anything, it sounds to me like you're not happy with either the proposal or the outcome of the vote or both. That's tough. Deal with it. It's done. If you don't like it, move to San Francisco and come up with your OWN proposal.

"Ultra tolerance" is something they preach-too bad they don't practice it. If it doesn't go along with their views, they don't accept it-if it only stopped there.

Liberals are the ultimate hyprocrites and are constantly contradicting themselves by their actions. If they only knew how insanely stupid they made themselves look.

Umm... let's see:

Rush Limbaugh - pending investigation from drug dealing and doctor shopping for drugs.
Bill O'Rielly - Settled lawsuit out of court for sexual harrasment.
Tom Delay - Indicted for money laundering.
Bill Frist - Under investigation by the SEC for insider trading.
Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice.
Sean Hannity - never served a day in the military in his whole life.
Karl Rove - Ditto
Ben Shapiro - Ditto
Dick Cheyney - Ditto

Aye Mate-Not all of CA is like this. I actually couldn't believe how many Bush bumper stickers I saw last year before the election when I went home to Oceanside. Without even counting, they clearly outnumbered those for Mr. Traitor Kerry.

LOL!!!! Oceanside! The home of Marine Corps base Camp Pendleton. Oh you kid!! As for Mr. "Traitor" Kerry, well, John Kerry was serving his country under fire while George Bush was still falling off of bar stools in Abilene.

Anyway Adjuster, you live in Boise, Idaho. If you've got the time, check out what the US Census Bureau has to say when comparing Boise to San Francisco. Lots of differences. It may help explain why people from different locations and backgronds don't see things the same way.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/16/1608830.html

Greg
 

Greg55_99

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From the November 15 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:

"OLBERMANN: "Patriotism," Dr. Samuel Johnson famously wrote, "is the last refuge of a scoundrel." If that's true, Bill O'Reilly has reached his last refuge. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors is looking at a resolution calling for O'Reilly to be taken off the air by his TV masters, Fox News, and his radio syndicators, Westwood One.

Our third story on the Countdown, the man who has been to all but about 1 percent of the population an obnoxious and perverted but fundamentally buffoonish character is in the deep woods now. He has not only amplified on his call to have Al Qaeda attack San Francisco, he has also defended it while at the same time doctoring the transcript of it, while at the same time claiming that all those who criticize him are against America.

In a moment, the San Francisco supervisor leading the call for O'Reilly's dismissal will join us here. First we go back to where this started.

[...]

OLBERMANN: And you thought Senator Joe McCarthy was dead. San Francisco's Board of Supervisors is now debating putting a measure on its agenda next week calling for Fox to fire the big giant head or for his radio people at Westwood One to discontinue his radio program. The man leading that charge, supervisor Chris Daly joins us now from San Francisco. Thank you for your time tonight, sir.

DALY: Thanks for having me, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Let me play devil's advocate here. Let me assume for a moment that he isn't lying when he said that this stuff about inviting Al Qaeda to blow up your city was a "satirical riff." If I had gone off on a similar satirical riff while standing in line at San Francisco International Airport, I'd be arrested, right?

DALY: Quite possibly arrested, and just consider if, you know, your background was Arab-American, it would be taken very seriously. I think San Franciscans right now, as Bill O'Reilly digs in, we have a message to Bill O'Reilly: We don't find your satirical riff funny. We find your words damaging, you know, and dangerous for 770,000 San Franciscans, over 100,000 San Franciscans who are children. You know, this is dangerous, Fox News and Westwood One need to take some accountability for this and terminate Bill O'Reilly's employment.

OLBERMANN: Maybe just as important as underscoring that this is not patriotism, it is hate speech, and self-promotional hate speech at that, is the point that it is broadly inaccurate. I mean, what is he leaving out particularly when he says, as he did a week ago today: "In San Francisco they are voting on two initiatives, one would ban military recruiting." That's not the entire story on those propositions, is it?

DALY: Not the entire story. He is talking about propositions H and I on the ballot. I was the main author on Proposition H, which will ban handguns for most San Franciscans. We have had a problem with homicides, handgun-related in San Francisco. That's our response, 58 percent of the voters voted in favor of that measure.

And he is talking about Proposition I, which was put on the ballot by signature, citizen petition, over 15,000 signatures were to place Proposition I on the ballot. It too got 58 percent of the vote last Tuesday. And it's a statement of policy. Basically what Proposition I says is that it should be the policy of the City and County of San Francisco that we discourage military recruiters on campus. And, you know, you don't have to watch the latest Michael Moore film to know that some military recruiters, not all, are selling -- you know, are selling goods to American young people. And in San Francisco, while we think that young people should have other options. Those who are in poor communities, those who are in poor schools, lots of them don't have real economic opportunity, and so Proposition I also called on my board, the board of supervisors, to do more in the budget for 18-year-olds coming out of college, and we plan to do that next budget year.

OLBERMANN: So this is -- he says, you know, San Francisco is banning military recruiting. It's on the actual campuses and it's to discourage, in any event --

[crosstalk]

OLBERMANN: I've mentioned this many times before: He has been bouncing around this business for 30 years. And he has always been viewed as a guy who is, you know, several light bulbs short of a marquee. Why not just dismiss him as the Michael Savage-type, to quote another figure who is familiar in your city, one of these learning-challenged hypocrites who believes in rights for everybody who agrees with him and for nobody who doesn't?

DALY: Well, it is an interesting point. Certainly Hard Copy* is a long way from SportsCenter, which I used to watch you on every night, a legitimate news program -- sports news program. And so, you can say write the guy off, but unfortunately, he's become very powerful, not just in influencing public opinion in middle America, but seemingly influencing policy made in Washington, D.C. This guy has big ratings. He is bombastic, and he uses that to promote his show and boost up his ratings. And his little mini-empire that he is building with the radio show and with, you know, his books and his children's book, you know, for crying out loud, and, you know, the guy has a huge following, and with that comes a huge responsibility.

He occupies, you know, a lot of airwave, and with that comes responsibility. The guy has got the right to say whatever he wants, and he has the right to speak his mind, I guess. I'm not trying to encroach on his First Amendment rights, but he doesn't necessarily have the right to be a so-called anchor on Fox News.

OLBERMANN: I bet he would not admit right now to influencing policy in Washington. In any event, San Francisco supervisor Chris Daly, who has introduced a resolution calling for the firing of Bill O'Reilly. Good luck with it. There is still advertisers to deal with. We'll see what happens, thanks for joining us.

DALY: Absolutely. The vote will be on Tuesday. "
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
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Greg-Well I see you've found another thread to disagree with me on again.

Adjuster said it was a law, so I thought it was. If it's not, then OK. Tell Adjuster he's wrong, not me.

Yes, Oceanside. However, I don't spend much time in that area. I saw those stickers on cars all over the place. I do my best to avoid areas of high military personnel concentration as best as I can, both in CA and HI.

"Sean Hannity - never served a day in the military in his whole life.
Karl Rove - Ditto
Ben Shapiro - Ditto
Dick Cheyney - Ditto"

Oh, so I suppose that makes them criminals if they support the military but have never served?

"Rush Limbaugh - pending investigation from drug dealing and doctor shopping for drugs.
Bill O'Rielly - Settled lawsuit out of court for sexual harrasment.
Tom Delay - Indicted for money laundering.
Bill Frist - Under investigation by the SEC for insider trading.
Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice."

When did I say that all conservatives are upstanding, law-obiding citizens? No matter what your political views are you can still be a "bad" person.
 

MDCmotorsports

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sp and adjuster.

Fuck em all. Lets make our own militia (sp?).

Yes I hate f'ing liberals who want the government to go away and at the same time mop up every single thing you do in life. That includes holding your hand long after you learned to wipe your own ass.... but don't tell me how to hold my hand just hold it.

Liberals are like bitches. Do it, just do it my way and for me.
 

SupraMario

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Mar 30, 2005
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SP 7M said:
Greg-Well I see you've found another thread to disagree with me on again.

Adjuster said it was a law, so I thought it was. If it's not, then OK. Tell Adjuster he's wrong, not me.

didnt you say in another thread that people assume to much so it makes them idiots, cause they take stuff in so quickly and take it for true?
just wandering.