Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)

[SupraDerk]

Ok, so I got into a HEATED argument about religion with one of my friends. Well I guess not so much religion as creation vs evolution. Now I'm not the least bit religious AT ALL, but I don't really care if someone decides to believe in it, but why is it that all of my so called "friends" that are Christian feel the need to tell me I'm going to hell for denying God's love. If he love's me so much, why would he want to burn in hell for all of eternity?

Well, anyways he was on a message board for our school and saw a video of Ann Coulter (who I usually unline except for in this instance) talking about how liberals are "godless" Video link

In the video she talks about how Darwinism is a crock and how liberals aren't trying to argue against her and blah blah blah. Well my friend was like "I totally agree! Who in their right mind can believe that we evolved from apes or that nature selects species for extinction! People who believe in this are idiots and they'll get theirs when judgement comes!" (something like that)

WTF!? How is evolution such a far fetched idea...but yet believing in some grand being that decided magically that it wanted to create oh I don't know..everything in existence, so much more believable? I usually can stay pretty calm, but I was seriously about to kick his ass tonight. :icon_evil


So I really don't get it! Could a believer please explain some stuff to me?! How is having faith in a god and believing he created everything more plausible than something that you can observe (natural selection, survival of the fittest, even evolution of species) and administer a scientific method to?? What created God? Is what created God...God^2?? What about what created God's God?? Where the hell do they exist...in magical God land?

I'm not trying to start a flamewar or anything, and I hope this turns out to be a good discussion, but I seriously don't get it. I'm so pissed off right now that tomorrow I'm gonna go pick up a bible and read the damn thing to see how it decides to "explain" things, then I'm gonna have this discussion with him again!!! :rant: :rant:


Please don't Christian bash and please don't Atheist/Agnostic bash. I seriously just want to know why creation is a more plausible idea than evolution by someone who belives it

 

[Nick M]

that are Christian feel the need to tell me I'm going to hell for denying God's love. If he love's me so much, why would he want to burn in hell for all of eternity?

They have misstated what Jesus said about salvation. God came to earth as a man and took your punishment for sin. He does not want you to burn for all eternity. Which you won't do anyway.

He never said you have to love him. But I find it unlikely that you accept his gift if you don't love him. He said if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, then you will be saved.

something that you can observe (natural selection, survival of the fittest, even evolution of species)

Only problem is, that has never been observed. It was a theory to exlplain why some species are more complicated than others.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

For one thing, God does love you very much. He didn't create hell for you to go to.

But - heres the catch. He loves you SO much that he gave you choice. Choice over every thing. Thats a lot of love. You may not understand it, but giving some one choice is a GIANT gift.

And now on to the next thing:

(This is my opinion and many others) Evolution isn't so much as far fetched, but the great debate is that something had to make the Evolution.

The other side of the conflict is that evolution is being forced down our kids' throats like RELIGION. That is what gets us Christians fired up. Its tought in school and they (the school boards, teachers etc) don't represent the Christian side to things.

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

I like both points of view. Im a catholic but Im not a every sunday i go to church guy. Very relaxed.

 

[CTsupra]

i always liked the question... was God forced to create the world?

 

[Kai]

Ann Coulter is a name that i have heard even over here, and from what i know, she is nothing more than 5 foot 10 of bile. Anyone like that who espouses religious virtues without having any herself is likely to one day end up being hacked to death by someone who'll use 'god told me to do it' as a defence :nono:

Christianity is a fractured religion with some people being for the most part okay, but plenty being 'preachy' and 'superior'. 'Unbelievers' get patronised like 'you do know that god exists, right?' I'm sorry but talking to me as though i'm a 5 year old gains you no respect.

As for evolution, the reason why they attack it is because they understand it, and it makes their religious base of 'god created everything' look like a steaming pile of shit. They cannot and will not accept that there wasn't some all powerful being that pooped us all into existence. Remember when they argued vehemently that the earth was only 5000 years old? That got shot down pretty damn quick by people that actually HAD A CLUE and had evidence to back it up not just 'but the bible says' bollocks.

Evolution is a THEORY granted, but its still the most plausible argument that i've ever heard, and whoever decided that 'Intelligent Design' is somehow equal to it is simply retarded. At least here in the UK, Intelligent Design WONT EVER be allowed into the classrooms as its religious opinion and NOT science.

</rant></GRR!>

 

[SupraDerk]

The other side of the conflict is that evolution is being forced down our kids' throats like RELIGION. That is what gets us Christians fired up. Its tought in school and they (the school boards, teachers etc) don't represent the Christian side to things.

I can see where you would get fed up, and I totally agree that you have the right to be. But you can observe evolution and I don't see it being taught as being a problem if it's explained that it might not be how everything came to exist.

I just still don't understand how creation is plausible though. There's nothing that really backs it up except for a book and a belief. If you look at theoretical physics then something like a singularity and Einstein's theory of special relativity and the M-theory can go all the way back to the beginnning and account for the makeup of the universe as it is today and also somewhat explain how evolution might've kicked off.

I just don't see how it's explained through religion and I stopped going to church when I was younger because no one would try to explain it to me

 

[SupraDerk]

PLEASE NO PERSONAL ATTACKS GUYS!!

 

[7MA61]

Just sit them down and get them to watch the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on creation vs Evolution being taught in school.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Ann Coulter is a name that i have heard even over here, and from what i know, she is nothing more than 5 foot 10 of bile. Anyone like that who espouses religious virtues without having any herself is likely to one day end up being hacked to death by someone who'll use 'god told me to do it' as a defence :nono:

Christianity is a twisted religion, and 'unbelievers' get patronised like 'you do know that god exists, right?' I'm sorry but talking to me as though i'm a 5 year old gains you no respect.

As for evolution, the reason why they attack it is because they understand it, and it makes their religious base of 'god created everything' look like a steaming pile of shit. They cannot and will not accept that there wasn't some all powerful being that pooped us all into existence. Remember when they argued vehemently that the earth was only 5000 years old? That got shot down pretty damn quick by people that actually HAD A CLUE and had evidence to back it up not just 'but the bible says' bollocks.

Evolution is a THEORY granted, but its still the most plausible argument that i've ever heard, and whoever decided that 'Intelligent Design' is somehow equal to it is simply retarded. At least here in the UK, Intelligent Design WONT EVER be allowed into the classrooms as its religious opinion and NOT science.

</rant></GRR!>

Its obvious you've only met religious fanatics. Id love to really sit down and talk to you sometime about the whole Christian religion and what we stand for.

There's been alot of things shot down over the years - Inventions, ideas, theories etc - some have been religion and others have been scientific.

It doesn't mean the person or religion behind the item being shot down was a complete wacko.

 

[Joel W.]

WTF!? How is evolution such a far fetched idea...

It is not imo, it just threatens the belief system of the others that disagree with it.. So they attack it..Faith is a strong force.

Edit:This arguement can not be won against those with "true faith" and I have learned I should not try..


Your a wild man...

:runaway:

 

[SupraDerk]

Ann Coulter is a name that i have heard even over here, and from what i know, she is nothing more than 5 foot 10 of bile. Anyone like that who espouses religious virtues without having any herself is likely to one day end up being hacked to death by someone who'll use 'god told me to do it' as a defence :nono:

Christianity is a fractured religion with some people being for the most part okay, but plenty being 'preachy' and 'superior'. 'Unbelievers' get patronised like 'you do know that god exists, right?' I'm sorry but talking to me as though i'm a 5 year old gains you no respect.

As for evolution, the reason why they attack it is because they understand it, and it makes their religious base of 'god created everything' look like a steaming pile of shit. They cannot and will not accept that there wasn't some all powerful being that pooped us all into existence. Remember when they argued vehemently that the earth was only 5000 years old? That got shot down pretty damn quick by people that actually HAD A CLUE and had evidence to back it up not just 'but the bible says' bollocks.

Evolution is a THEORY granted, but its still the most plausible argument that i've ever heard, and whoever decided that 'Intelligent Design' is somehow equal to it is simply retarded. At least here in the UK, Intelligent Design WONT EVER be allowed into the classrooms as its religious opinion and NOT science.

</rant></GRR!>

I agree with a lot of that. My dad finally explained to me his views on religion one day over this past summer. He said that he doesn't believe in what the bible literally says, but uses it as a source for stories that show where to gain morals and base the way you live your life. I don't have a problem with that.

But when people take what the bible has to say as the LAW, it drives me insane!

 

[MDCmotorsports]

I can see where you would get fed up, and I totally agree that you have the right to be. But you can observe evolution and I don't see it being taught as being a problem if it's explained that it might not be how everything came to exist.

I just still don't understand how creation is plausible though. There's nothing that really backs it up except for a book and a belief. If you look at theoretical physics then something like a singularity and Einstein's theory of special relativity and the M-theory can go all the way back to the beginnning and account for the makeup of the universe as it is today and also somewhat explain how evolution might've kicked off.

I just don't see how it's explained through religion and I stopped going to church when I was younger because no one would try to explain it to me

Well the best explanation that I can give you is that we aren't ment to understand how things got the way they are now.

The Bible simply explains to us that God Created it and it was so.

As for evolution - NO ONE LIVING, LIVED, OR ABOUT TO LIVE HAS EVER WHITNESSED IT IN PRACTICE OR MOTION.

That being said, why is it preached so hard?

 

[Kai]

Fact - Creationism ISNT Science, its religious opinion, and a bad one at that. Evolution on the other hand, is SCIENTIFIC THEORY, but 1,000,000,000 times more plausable and arguable than 'god pooped things into existence.'

For a visual representation of just how stupid the idea of creationism is - watch Season 5 of Family Guy 'The Griffin Family History'. You'll laugh at it.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

I agree with a lot of that. My dad finally explained to me his views on religion one day over this past summer. He said that he doesn't believe in what the bible literally says, but uses it as a source for stories that show where to gain morals and base the way you live your life. I don't have a problem with that.

But when people take what the bible has to say as the LAW, it drives me insane!

Well the Bible is law. (Go ahead and look for yourself :icon_bigg ) If you look at every major or minor religion in the world, past/present/future, it is the only one that if you could live by it 100%, the world would be perfect.

Sure some of the stuff in the old test. is a bit wild (no shrimp eating etc) it is the perfect manual for the human soul/human society/human life.

Now you say, well if its perfect and I can't follow it what gives?

Well your cars owner's manual is perfect right? It tells how the oil should be changed and how the tires should be inflated but HEY guess what?! Your car breaks down from time to time, and still needs gas and oil.

 

[7MA61]

Well the best explanation that I can give you is that we aren't ment to understand how things got the way they are now.

The Bible simply explains to us that God Created it and it was so.

As for evolution - NO ONE LIVING, LIVED, OR ABOUT TO LIVE HAS EVER WHITNESSED IT IN PRACTICE OR MOTION.

That being said, why is it preached so hard?

The bible was also written well after said events supposedly occurred, as fasr as we know it could be a good fiction novel:icon_razz .

Sorry but evolution/science and theory like the big bang leave far less questions unanswered then religion.

Religion to me just seems like an easy way to explaining childbirth to a kid or a moron, god created everything done well theres your answer.

I can't turn water into wine but I sure as hell can make alcohol out of it just add yeast and sugar and sit for some time, hey bow down to your new lord.:evil2:

 

[SupraDerk]

You can follow fossil records and see where different species have shared some characteristics and then see where they've started to branch apart

here's something on PBS' website about the origin of birds Darwin examined: Evolution


But evolution doesn't happen over night but over a series of years. I'm pretty sure a similar type of argument can be used against creation though...I'm 100% sure that no one has ever seen God. But creation doesn't have anything to back it, evolution has fossil records at least

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Fact - Creationism ISNT Science, its religious opinion, and a bad one at that. Evolution on the other hand, is SCIENTIFIC THEORY, but 1,000,000,000 times more plausable and arguable than 'god pooped things into existence.'

For a visual representation of just how stupid the idea of creationism is - watch Season 5 of Family Guy 'The Griffin Family History'. You'll laugh at it.

So since the "Scientific theory" has soooooo much credibility (one in a million chance that evolution is right since no one has whitnessed it in person) it has more CONCRETE value then that of the idea that we are the creation of an ALL MIGHTY BEING?

 

[Kai]

Using the bible to teach morals is fine by me (although i can think of better ways to teach them), but to literally interpret it and be so immovable as to be almost retarded is NOT.

As for only meeting wacko's, not really. My mate steve is a christian, although he doesn't reveal it because every argument that involves evolution he talks about how god HAS to have created everything, and that there cant be any other solution.

A lot of that is due to religious indoctrination unfortunately, turning a perfectly sane man into a babbling lunatic.

I went to a Church of England primary school like many british kids and unfortunately, i wasnt allowed to have a choice as to whether i went to wednesday church service or not, so i skipped out anyway. The headteacher was furious with my parents for not making me, and they were horrified that religion was being crammed into my head. Needless to say, I never had to go to church service again.

It was almost like being in invasion of the body snatchers. If i showed a differing opinion or chose not to believe, people would point fingers and scream at me. *ahem*

 

[7MA61]

My Boss calls himself god and I see him everyday