Quick questions about the headlights.

[Poodles]

if the headlight relay sticks, you will have highbeams on ALL THE TIME, they won't turn off (even if the lights go down)

I had to jump my lights this way until I found the issue.

It's the integration relay. It's a blue box... (no comments on girly hands or anything :biglaugh: )

 

[Doward]

Yep, just found the little bastard. Gonna start testing on it tonight, after lab. I actually think I have a spare!

 

[Poodles]

it's extremely easy to pull once you figure it out, if I ever need one again I can pick up a couple from a junkyard...

IIRC the celicas used something very close if not exactly the same part number...

I couldn't find anything fried in mine, but swapping it with another fixed the issue...

 

[Doward]

Swapped the integration relay, no help there.

Started going through the tsrm to see if I could find my problem. #10 wire is supposed to be zero volts when the headlights are supposed to be off. As a matter of fact, it looks like a transistor(if I remember my symbols correctly) opens/closes wire 10 so as to turn on/off the headlight relay.

My headlight relay is being told to stay on. I just tested it out, and it's good. Continuity on the small side, apply/remove 12v+GND to the small side gives me that nice 'click' and continuity/no continuity on the big side.

I have ONLY the body harness in the vehicle. It seems I have a bad transistor, as the IC keeps the #10 wire energized after I turn on the lights. Pulling the ground from the battery, and reconnecting the ground, will reset the lights until I turn them back on again.

 

[jetjock]

Even if that were the case (unlikely unless you have multiple bad integration relays) the combo switch should remove ground from the relay coil, same as it did to the stock headlamps. Is it doing that? Check it referenced to battery positive.

So the car's wiring wasn't stock before you did this mode? I can tell you there's no quicker way to smoke integration relays than to use an N/A body harness with a turbo engine harness. I assume everything worked before you did this mod.

 

[3p141592654]

Did you check to see that the Violet-White (14) wire going to the combo switch is grounded with the headlight switch on, and open-circuit with the headlight switch off.

 

[Doward]

JJ, the body harness is completely stock. There is no engine harness in the vehicle (I removed it when I removed the engine)

3p, will check. I know #18 ground is good.

 

[Doward]

#14 is grounded when the headlight switch is on, and no longer grounded when the headlight switch is off (put a continuity tester in #14 and #18 to test)

JJ, the wiring diagram in the '89 TEWD and the wiring diagram in the back of my '87 TSRM both show the headlight relay as having always hot signal, with #10 of the Integration relay grounding the other side - the wire that grounds it also goes to something called 'TCCS LP', which seems to just be a signal letting the TCCS know the headlights are on (maybe for an idle up function)

*EDIT*

Ok, I misunderstood you JJ! I pulled the headlight relay, used a thin wire to check for voltage - I have 12v on the left side (as standing over the driver fender looking down at it) - and get this, if I put red probe to + battery, and black probe to the wire probing the right side of the relay, I'm reading 9.99-10.01v. But it isn't activating the relay when I snap it in place (this is all with the combo switch in 'off' position) Now if I set the combo switch to turn the headlights on, instead of reading 10v, I read 12.4v, and setting the combo switch to 'off' does not change that.

If I pull the negative battery terminal, it all resets (and I get 10v again)

*EDIT2*

I still get a 10v again (positive battery terminal to the right side of the relay) even with the integration relay disconnected. That doesn't seem possibly, if the #10 wire is the only wire going to the headlight relay, and would only get grounded from the integration relay itself.

 

[cuel]

Not a wiring expert by any means, but I did have a similar problem. turns out that the plug for the headlight retract motors has a little notch in it, and the harness has a little tab(maybe the other way around). They weren't lined up correctly, and the lights wouldn't shut off or retract sporadically. The connectors looked like they were together correctly, but it was off just enough to give me problems. No idea if you've had them undone, but maybe?

 

[Doward]

It's not just the retraction that is not working - the headlights do not turn off, due to the headlight relay staying energized. I'm trying to determine why I would have two integration relays with the same behavior. Appreciate the help though!

 

[AGlobalThreat]

Poodles when you had your relay stick, would the lights come on as soon as you started the car, even when your switch was turned to off?

 

[Poodles]

It was stuck open, so it wouldn't activate...

Not sure if it would do that, but it wouldn't surprise me. They're cheap from a junkyard around here, and every supra will have one. I picked up a couple as they're not cheap from the dealer...

 

[Doward]

Another note (see my previous post up a couple)

Relay circuit passes all tests in the TSRM, except for the 5-1, 7-1, 5-9, 7-9 continuity checks for the retractors.

I'm not looking very hard at the retractors right now, as I am unaware that the retractor relays in the integration relay could be causing my lights not turning off problem. I'll look into them tomorrow.

Don't you just love electrical problems? :3d_frown:

 

[Poodles]

lol, yep, that damn little box is a bitch...

hey, at least it's not the integration relay on the BACK of the fuse panel... I've had to swap that one as well since it was causing my interior lights not to come on...

 

[Wiisass]

Is it just me or does the wiring diagram on the first page not make any sense? I know you have the old wiring in there and the new wiring, but it still isn't making any sense to me.

On those relays, you have 85 and 86 are the switch side of the relay and 30 and 87 are the high power side of the relay. So since you said that the headlight switch on the combo stalk is ground operated, well that really doesn't matter. You need a power and a ground on the switch side of the relay to trigger it. On the other side of the relay, I guess you could switch the the ground or you could switch power on. Either way would work fine.

But you would want the wire from the headlight stalk for the low beam going to the 85 or 86 on one relay and the wire for the high beams going to the 85 or 86 on the other relay. And then the other 85 or 86 would get 12V. That's assuming that the headlight stalk switches the wire out to ground when you turn it. I'm not sure if this just isn't drawn into the diagram or you drew it funny and I'm not just seeing it or something. But I would think that's the way it should be and that is the way I would do it.

Then for the other side, since you're wiring it in yourself anyway, you have options. I would just run the ground to the chassis, run the 30amp fuses in line with the power and run the power wires through the relay. But I guess doing it on the ground side is kind of the same, I just think it would clean things up a little to do it on the power side I mean it's just a light, so it needs power on one side and ground on the other. And if you're rewiring it, you can do it anyway you want.

So I don't know if this will help you or not, but if the switch side of the relay isn't wired correctly, then it could be causing these problems. And maybe the integration relay or blue box or whatever it is, is only allowing the lights to switch on once the motor reaches the top position. And then since the relays are wired wrong, they aren't killing the lights when they go down. So it's like the relays are wired for constant power, but the headlights won't turn on until the motors operate. I don't know, just an idea.

Tim

 

[jetjock]

Don't you just love electrical problems?

Very much so. It's Trig I find difficult

When you say the headlight relay is staying energized you mean the stock headlight relay right? I'm more interested in why the new relays aren't switching off. They should if the combo switch is working and you have the pigtails wired right.

 

[Doward]

Trig is easy, the numbers don't hide from you and force you to locate them

JetJock - Correct. The stock headlight relay in JB2 stays energized, even after I switch power off.

I'm really wondering why I have ground there at the stock headlight relay socket, with nothing hooked up to it (including the integration relay disconnected). There is no point in the TEWD that I see, stating the wire gets ground anywhere but through the integration relay.

Wiisass - I'm not aware that the Hella relays used to power the headlights cares about polarity. What I have done is this:

Stock Headlight Wiring:
1) The stock headlight relay is energized when the headlights are told to come on.
2) Power flows through the relay, through the fuses, and into the headlights (where most headlights have a single ground) - This is the red, and red/white wire in the schematic.
3) The dimmer switch (which controls high beam/low beam) alternately switches ground between the high beam and low beam contacts of the stock headlight.
4) When the combo switch is set to 'Off' the switch is supposed to tell the Integration Relay to cut ground to the stock headlight relay, collapsing the magnetic coil and causing the headlight relay to break power to the headlights.

What I have done:
1) The stock headlight relay is energized as stock when the headlights are told to come on - the power from the relay flows to both of my Hella relays to terminal 85 (one side to each)
2) If the dimmer switch is set to Low Beam, the ground that would go to the headlight's low beam contact now grounds one of the Hella relays, activating it. That particular Hella relay grounds both D and P headlight's low beam contact (the headlights always have power flow to them in my circuit)
3) If the dimmer switch is set to High Beam, the ground that would go to the headlight's head beam contact now grounds the other relay. The first relay is switched off, as the ground to terminal 86 is broken. Terminal 86 of the second relay now sees ground, and passes ground to the high beam contacts of both headlights.
4) If the headlights are turned off, the stock power signal to terminal 85 should be broken, killing the Hella relay's magnetic coil.

This seems to be the problem I am having - the stock power signal is NOT terminating. From the TEWD, grounding of the stock headlight relay coil is done via the #10 wire of the integration relay.

If I remember my transistors correctly, the base of this particular transistor is controlled by the IC of the integration relay. The collector is the #10 wire, with the emitter letting power flow out to ground via terminal 18. In theory then, I should be able to jump terminals 10 and 18 to turn teh headlights on, and remove the jumper to turn them off.

Ooooohhhh something to test, BRB!

*EDIT - RESULTS*

Jumper wire in #18, jump to #10 = headlights on with full dimmer control.
Remove wire = headlights off.

The Integration Relay is not breaking contact with ground. That is without a doubt the problem.

Now the question is, why? And why do I have 10v of ground on the stock headlight relay circuit, with the Integration Relay disconnected?

 

[jetjock]

I'm not following this:

"The dimmer switch (which controls high beam/low beam) alternately switches ground between the high beam and low beam contacts of the stock headlight via the Integration Relay"

The Integration Relay only controls power via the headlight relay. It does not control high or low beam. It's mainly there for the auto-off function.
Look at the stock wiring. Where do the headlamps normally ground from?

You didn't answer my question. Are the new relays de-energizing when the combo switch is off? Regardless of the stock headlight relay staying energized the headlights can't remain on if their ground has been removed by the new relay(s), the same it was removed by the combo switch when the wiring was stock.

 

[Wiisass]

Alright, I'm confused. Why do you need the stock headlight relay and the two Hella relays? And are you using the leads that go to the stock headlight wires to switch the two new relays?

Why can't you just use the stock wiring with the new headlights? They're just H4 housings right?

Tim

 

[Doward]

I see. The combo switch should be cutting the ground to the relays, turning the headlights off.

I'll check it out when I get back home, thanks for the advice!