Questioning my turbo choice...

[Mibba]

the only catch (that jon pointed out and i confirmed) is that the onset of boost is insanely fast... as in, a matter of a few hundred RPM's. on my truck, i can go from 5psi cruising at 50mph and 1500rpm to 38psi by 55mph and 1700rpm. put that boost characteristic on a gas motor with higher levels of exhaust energy and youll have a car thats nothing short of Scary to drive.

Yeh, thats all well and good. But how big of a displacement is your 'truck'?
It also depends on how big of a rear housing we are talking on this turbo.

As i said in my previous post, anything over 1.0a/r rear housing is starting to get seriously laggy

 

[flubyux2]

its almost exactly twice the displacement of the supra.
it revs only half as high as the supra.
and it has slightly less than twice the static compression ratio of the supra
the hotside of my turbo is 12cm2, similar to a TD06H GReddy turbo. i beleive 20G and 25G's run hotsides in that range... but those would never spool right? oh, i forgot to mention my truck uses a T3 flange... so we are talking a T3 in a 12cm2; which, i do beleive, is NOT the same as a 12cm2 on a T4 housing.

the turbos that would "never spool" are the ones from like 8 liter and larger Class 8 diesel trucks. Class 4 and 5 trucks like mine have turbos that are usable. i personally was wanting to experiment with the Garrett found on the 04-07 6.0 powerstroke.... with the variable geometry turbine

 

[Mibba]

. i personally was wanting to experiment with the Garrett found on the 04-07 6.0 powerstroke.... with the variable geometry turbine

Problem with most VGT turbo's off diesel's they are made to withstand the EGT's of a gas engine. There are quiet a few moving parts in the back of a vgt turbo.


I was just questioning the rear housing size thats all, i never said it wouldn't spool.

 

[flubyux2]

yeah... but EGT's on a powerful class 4-5 diesel can get as high as a gas motor. alot of the guys on my diesel forum run their trucks to about 1400*F. those are the ones at 600rwtq and higher. guys like me, in the 550rwtq range and under are stuck below the 1300range.

i think the problem behind VGT failure on the ford/international 6.0 motors was the soot. it tends to seize up the VGT vanes. i would expect it to live longer on a gas motor with less soot.

 

[Kckazdude]

TRUCK TURBOS ARE CRAP ON CARS. Diesel and gasoline engines are totally different animals, I'd advise you sell it to a dodge driving dumbass and buy a solid setup turbo for our car!

Wow! Internet FUD at its finest.

I am certainly learning about all this but was under the impression that the exhaust A/R would be the deciding factor in using it on our cars.

 

[MassSupra89]

It would be quite the battle to get a VGT turbo to work as it does on the 6.0Powerstroke. But amazing if one could pull it off. We've got a few laying around my school too:naughty:

 

[Red7m]

its almost exactly twice the displacement of the supra.
it revs only half as high as the supra.
and it has slightly less than twice the static compression ratio of the supra
the hotside of my turbo is 12cm2, similar to a TD06H GReddy turbo. i beleive 20G and 25G's run hotsides in that range... but those would never spool right? oh, i forgot to mention my truck uses a T3 flange... so we are talking a T3 in a 12cm2; which, i do beleive, is NOT the same as a 12cm2 on a T4 housing.

The Greddy Td06sh-20g bolt-on is a t3 flange with a 14cm^2 housing. So the housing on your Holset turbo is acually a little bit smaller.
12cm^2= .89A/R
14cm^2= 1.05A/R
http://www.turbo-owners.com/forum/general-turbo-tech/201-mitsubishi-turbocharger-info.html

 

[flubyux2]

The Greddy Td06sh-20g bolt-on is a t3 flange with a 14cm^2 housing. So the housing on your Holset turbo is acually a little bit smaller.
12cm^2= .89A/R
14cm^2= 1.05A/R
http://www.turbo-owners.com/forum/general-turbo-tech/201-mitsubishi-turbocharger-info.html

good info! i wasnt exactly sure but thanks for posting up. did you also find a forumla to convert the metric AR numbers to the ratio numbers that are used domestically?

btw, the 14cm housing that you mentioned for the 20G is the STOCK housing on the 89-93 dodge Ram cummins variant! those housings are NOT internally gated like mine.

i have a 17cm on my T88, i wonder what AR that works out to be... *hint hint*

Oh, and the 6.0 VGT turbos, they just use a two-wire actuator. i want to say its just a solenoid atuator as opposed to a stepper. i think its either "open" or "closed" right? btw, any chance you could measure the compressor wheel with some digital calipers on one of those turbos? im curious how big they are. oh, and how much money would it cost to get one of those things from your school

 

[MassSupra89]

It is a stepper actuator, controlled by oil pressure. The main input's to the VGT are an exhaust backpressure sensor and manifold pressure sensor.
I've played with these trucks with the Ford scantool and you can command the VGT in 10 percent increment's. Commanded to 0% and the Vane's will be open allowing the exhaust pressure to bypass the turbine and out the exhaust. Command it to 85%(highest VGT will operate at) and you can build boost at idle, without hitting the gas.
The VGT is also used in replacement of a wastegate, when the VGT vanes are open, it is like the wastegate allowing air around the turbo, and when it is closed it is directing air through the turbo. Between 0% and 85% VGT position is used to reduce lag, and increase torque.

The electronic turbocharger variable vane hydraulic control valve utilizes the powertrain control module (PCM) to control intake manifold pressure. The turbocharger uses a set of moveable vanes in the turbine housing to change the flow of the exhaust gases throughout the turbocharger. These vanes can be positioned to change the angle or direction and the velocity of flow to the turbine wheel, depending upon the conditions in which the engine is operated. As power demands increase, exhaust gas velocity increases in direct relation, as does intake manifold boost pressure. Conversely, as the flow of exhaust gas diminishes, intake manifold boost pressure is also reduced at the same rate.

Vanes mounted around the internal circumference of the turbine housing are connected to a unison ring. The unison ring links all the vanes together and when the unison ring moves, all the vanes move. The unison ring is moved by exposing either side of an actuator piston to pressurized engine oil. Oil flow to the appropriate side of the piston is regulated by the turbocharger variable control valve whose winding is part of a pulse width modulated (PWM) circuit regulated by the PCM. An increase in duty cycle of the PWM circuit will route oil through the turbocharger variable control valve in a way that will cause piston movement that increases manifold pressure (BOOST). Decreasing the pulse width will direct oil such that the manifold pressure (BOOST) will be decreased.

 

[flubyux2]

yeah, i put a scantool on my friends 04 harley truck and saw the exhaust gas pressure and VGT position and stuff. it was a while ago but it made quite a bit of boost.

it sounds to me that it operates on the same principle as a fuel injector. im willing to bet that it could be operated similarly with an AIC or even a function on an AEM.

i think the VGT function on the PSD also has something to do with accelerating the warmup during cold starts. when we took the cat off the truck, it would sound like a modular motor mustang. then within a few seconds, the vanes closed a little and it developed a sound like rushing air. the longer the truck sat and idled, the more the turbine speed increased. it sounded exactly like a jet turbine throttling up for more thrust... it was pretty sweet.

 

[SupraDupra500]

Just some input from personal experience here. I had a Holest HY35W on my supra which i bought from Jon at MDC (thanks for all the help with that whole fiasco Jon!!). with a stainless steel tubular manifold and 50mm external w/g all supporting mods i had FULL boost at 3200rpm. dont know what my egt's were but i never had it over 19psi on pump and anything over 7psi had water/meth spraying. However, it made awesome power.. at 10psi i walked allll over a modded LS1 camaro (i have video). i bought some Torco 110oct leaded fuel and cranked it to 26psi. my Spec 3 clutch with 6puck feramic disc was slipping in 4th gear.. no traction in 1,2,or 3. It is a fantastic turbo, i had no complaints other than figuring out the over-oiling and under oiling issue we had. I'm ditching that turbo for a bigger unit. And if anyone uses this turbo, you WILL.. absolutely WIILLL need to go external w/g. that turbo will over-boost like freaking mad. the stock w/g can not let out enough exh. gases. even if you port the w/g hole.
Also, the a/r on my holset is .69 compressor side and .89 turbine side as a side note. its the 12cm2 housing iirc.

Supra kid 101... If you want help or input on putting this turbo on, PM me ill give you my cell # and we can talk. I also have a few things you will deff. be interested in knowing, but too much to type here.

 

[flubyux2]

what was the lowest boost you were able to run on that turbo? did it have trouble holding a stable boost level and end up creeping?

 

[MassSupra89]

Yea My friend's 6.0 will do that jet thrust sound (5" straight exhaust to a sidepipe) It's pretty intimidating. He towed his Cobra to some races one time and the Honda kids wouldn't even race the truck with the trailer still on haha.

 

[flubyux2]

yeah, they are pretty cool when they run right. the only way i want a 6.0 is dropped into an SN95 mustang i love my 12valve though. i can throw injectors, delivery valves and a turbo on it and make 900rwtq w/o batting an eye or worring about EGR coolers, FICM harnesses, headgaskets, cam sensors, etc.

 

[MassSupra89]

My friend's got a Cummins making 1,600ft lbs. and 600hp. He pretty much threw injectors, turbo, and chips at it haha. I'd love an 08 6.4 liter though... too bad the front ends are so ugly.

 

[flubyux2]

... 1600? cmon now. unless you have a dyno video or a sheet, i call shenanigans. a 600rwhp setup should do about 1200-1300rwtq. thats almost unattainable with a large single too. he would most likely need to run a compound twins setup. if its a 24valve truck, like a 98+, he would need ALOT more than just bolt ons to run that torque level too. hed need to O-ring the block, head studs, valve springs, ANOTHER injection pump and a governor spring kit (i think).

those 6.4's fords? did you see the videos of them on youtube when they were first released? omg, those were the coolest things ever!

 

[MassSupra89]

He's got the dyno sheet, he maxed out the Dyno at our school, 1500 limit. He later dyno'd and got accurate numbers. This was last year

The engine is built too, I was exagerating on throwing bolt on's at it. He run's 11.8. Lives in NH. I'll try getting the sheet or a video of him at the track.

 

[flubyux2]

lol ok... that makes alot more sense now. id love to see some videos or pics and stuff. does he have a compound turbo setup?

 

[MassSupra89]

No it was single when those numbers were made I believe, compound was his next step. I found a video of him getting smoked by a Corvette at the track, haha clearly not one of this 11 or 12 second runs.

This was a 12.03 run

Edit: Oops, was just told it was 650hp, 1350ft lbs. when he ran that. Sounds more like it.

 

[Sawbladz]

Why would he drag race with those tires?