Question about the 2JZ MAP Sensor....

[Derek1224]

I'm planning on getting a MAP Sensor from a japanese MKIV since its a straight swap to my MAP Sensor but is a 2 Bar IIRC compared to my standard one being a 1 Bar.

The question is... has anyone on here done this yet and if so, what was the new boost cut level at?

The 2J MAP Sensor won't remove the boost cut, just push it to a higher boost level since it reads in a different voltage range then the 1J sensor. I'll have an SAFC to add fuel as the 2J sensor swap makes the car run quite Lean due to its different voltages it outputs to the ECU.

 

[drunk_medic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most people who put the 2JZ MAP sensor in their 1JZ also put in the J-Spec 2JZ's 440cc injectors, and then even the fuel out a little better with a S-AFC or other "minor" piggyback fuel tuning unit? I think that the slightly higher flowing injectors coupled with the 2JZ's intended MAP sensor might prevent you from worrying about leaning out any.

 

[Derek1224]

You may be right about that. It's probably similar to 7M guys going with 550's and the Lex AFM. Since I'm not looking for tons of power right now anyways I should be fine with the stock injectors and an SAFC. I'll just have to add "x%" across the board until I can get in for tuning.

I'd love to hear from someone who's done this mod and what they had to do to have it work smoothly.

 

[bobiseverywhere]

adding the 440 injectors does not mean instand power or more of it. Just that you are trying to match the flow of the injectors with what the ECU thinks is the Volume of air coming in.

 

[Derek1224]

adding the 440 injectors does not mean instand power or more of it. Just that you are trying to match the flow of the injectors with what the ECU thinks is the Volume of air coming in.

I know, but for the cost of the injectors i can buy an SAFC and tell the ECU to add more fuel to achieve the same out come. Besides, when it comes time to do the fuel system I'll be going with some SARD 650 side feeds, a Walbro 255lph pump, and a GT30R turbo. Until then my stock 370's will be plenty for the stock twins.

 

[natesiy]

I don't know if the SAFC can handle the Sard 650s.

I thought the afc only has a + or - 20% adjustability?

 

[tsuper92]

650's = standalone
you can buy the 440's in the for sale section for $150 with the 2j rail(even though the rail is useless)i've seen them for as low as $50 for all 6 and don't think your going to find a safc that cheap.your car will run real rich down low with 650's and safc won't help you there.
you will still pull some fuel with stock injector's up top with twin's at 14.5 psi.unless you raised the rev limit and used some cam's,i don't see a need for bigger injector's on stock twin's.in that case the 440's or usdm 550's will do the job.
i tried the 2j map and it didn't seem to raise my fuel cut.you can have it for $150 if you want to try it for yourself

 

[annoyingrob]

Sorry to hijack, but what are the exact specifications of the two MAP sensors? The 1JZ can't be a 1 bar map, atmospheric pressure is at 1 bar. I've heard rumors stating that the 1JZ map will read up to about 18psig, which would be 2.25bar absolute. There are tuners locally that swear the sensor reads 18psig although 2.25 bar is a strange number.

Would I be safe to assume that the 2JZ MAP is a 3 bar sensor (29 psig)?

 

[mobes]

Everything I've read states:
1JZ is 2 bar (1 bar atm + 1 bar boost)
2JZ is 2.5 bar (1 bar atm + 1.5 bar boost)

But there may be some slight headroom, thus the 18psi on the 1JZ MAP.

Back to the original question(s),
Boost cut with the 1JZ MAP for me was around 16 PSI, and I have boosted 19-20 and not hit it yet on the 2JZ MAP.
I'm running a 2JZ MAP and MKIV 550's with the 7M resistor pack. I haven't had it tuned yet (car is in storage for the winter) but I'm pulling about 10% fuel at idle (stock fuel pressure) in order to get it to idle smooth. So 650's would definitely be a bit much for the SAFC to handle.

 

[Derek1224]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. The SAFC is able to do + or - 50% fuel so thats how I figured it would be ok down the road when I go single with bigger injectors. The 2J 440's are bolt in correct, meaning that there's no resistor pack that has to be wired in? My goal for the car is no more then about 400rwhp so the 440's should be able to get me there I would think since 550's are good for about 520rwhp safely.

My immediate plan is to put my CAT back in to add some backpressure to the exhaust again to hopefully keep from hitting boost cut until I have the cash to progress with my car some more in a safe manner. I'm thinking I should see about 13-14psi with a 3" DP and CAT Back with the stock CAT in place. Spring is going to be an expensive time of year for me with the things I'm wanting to get done with the car. :icon_conf

 

[inline6]

I thought the Safc could clamp the signal from the map sensor. I know the emanage has that feature.

On a side note I picked up some 2j 440's in a rail for $50. Now I can continue to mod the 1j. My 370's were seeing 96% duty cycle. And people always said the twins were the limiting factor :dunno:

 

[natesiy]

I know the Emanage U can clamp the MAP sensor for boost cut.

For the money, i think a full piggyback would do wonders VS the AFC. i'm not a big fan for the dollar.

 

[Derek1224]

The SAFC will run me about $430 Canadian brand new where as a standalone will be around $1500 Cdn before install. I can't justify the extra 1100 bucks on a standalone for the small HP goals I have for the car really when guys are hitting the same numbers on SAFC's. :icon_conf

Any thoughts, suggestions, comments, flames... lol

 

[inline6]

Only that the emanage is a piggyback similar to the safc with more useful functions. It is not a standalone and still allows you to run off the stock ecu.

 

[Derek1224]

well after adding the cost of the E-Manage, the ignition harness, the pressure sensor, and pressure sensor harness it'll be around 6-700 bucks which is close enough in cost to warrent going standalone for the extra 500 or so.

 

[inline6]

well after adding the cost of the E-Manage, the ignition harness, the pressure sensor, and pressure sensor harness it'll be around 6-700 bucks which is close enough in cost to warrent going standalone for the extra 500 or so.

Yea I think it ended up around high 500's. And I think its worth it. You are buying a 2j map sensor but an emanage would eliminate fuel cut. I think it can handle larger injectors. It can control injectors, ignition timing, and alter the MAP signal.

Talk to some of the standalone guys and I'm pretty sure they will tell you that $1100-1200 is optimistic for a complete setup. Plus on an emanage you can tune it yourself, GL with learning a standalone.

I just like the emanage because it seems to be about as far as you can go with piggybacks. But thats just my opinion, I think you already have your mind made up anyways :icon_wink

 

[Derek1224]

Have you heard or read anything about the Emanage Ultimate? IIRC, its suppose to be nearly a standalone without removing your stock ECU kinda like the HKS F-Con (the OLD model that piggy backed your ECU and adjusted fuel automatically based on sensor inputs.)

My biggest concern about going Emanage is whether there's going to be a tuner in my area that is competent with it. I don't want to buy a fuel computer that no one knows then be stuck with it. Everyone seems to know the SAFC since its so simple. I guess I'll have to make some phone calls to some local Dyno's and see what they can work with.

EDIT: I just priced an Emanage with the support software and timing control harness and it came to 600CDN before shipping which would probably be about 50 bucks. So for under 700 bucks it seems like it'd be worth it.

Price Comparison: After Taxes...

SAFC: 450CDN
Emanage: ~650CDN

but then add another 200bucks for a MKIV MAP Sensor to the cost of the SAFC and they're even so it seems more reasonable to go Emanage since the cost is the same in the end but the Emanage can do so much more then the SAFC.

Thanks for helping me open up to the reality of what will be better in the long run!

 

[inline6]

No problem. Some people swear by the SAFC but I just like the emanage's features. The ultimate is supposed to be more difficult to run on our cars for some reason, but a few guys have got it to work.

The emanage tunes basically the same as an SAFC, easier IMO because you get to view the entire map and make changes. With a wideband you could easily tune the fuel yourself.

I will warn you though, you need a laptop to really use the emanage, and a special cable that you can get for about $40, and you will need to run the pressure sensor. You dont need the support software from Greddy. The software is online and the clone cables can be had for only $40.

 

[annoyingrob]

Talk to some of the standalone guys and I'm pretty sure they will tell you that $1100-1200 is optimistic for a complete setup.

Just because you had to say something.


"1200 is optimistic for a complete standalone setup"

ECU, ECU accessories, Wiring harness, wideband controller, wideband sensor, installation, tuning. You can easily spend $5000 before you realize it.

 

[Derek1224]

Thanks guys. I have a laptop right now so that won't be an issue and if I don't need their support software then that takes another 120 off the price so it'll end up cheaper then the SAFC.

Standalones are expensive and I don't feel its nessisary unless i want 500+ hp and my goals only for 400-450 MAX which a piggy back should easily be able to do on the 1J.