Question about mirror finish (head) & I'm lookin for a reputable machine shop in WA

[jdub]

Figgie is no slouch

I'm a believer in getting the decks as smooth as possible, but it comes to a point of diminishing returns and expense...mirror smooth is subjective as figgie pointed out...RA spec is not. If you're going with a OEM HG, a surface RA of 50 is plenty good enough...but, if it can be done smoother for no additional cost, yeah I'd go for it. A final lap won't hurt either. Like I said, flat with a stock HG is just as or more important.

ARP head stud spec is 80 ft/lbs using moly for lube. Torque in the TRSM sequence in 10-15 ft/lb increments. I highly suggest a re-torque after a minimum of 5 heat cycles...there's a thread going on now about that.

Concerning an oil flush...did you have coolant in your oil? (it appears so)
Did you run it and how much with coolant in the oil?
Is the motor in the car or did you pull it?

 

[gaboonviper85]

sorry I must have confuse your idea of a mirror finish....In my world (ISO certified world) a mirror finish is is considered at no less then an ra of 12 as a matter of fact I just finished parts that required an ra of 8...these are parts to an experimental machine that is to be mounted on commercial airlines and detects and tracks radar and laser lock from ground to air RPG's

 

[gaboonviper85]

and to avoid more future confusion a "mirror finish" in most shops hold a standard if an RA of 4-8 and an optical mirror is .1-.4...sorry for not being an old timer and useing the term mirror finish so loosely!!!! Maybe if I was so old and wise it would be acceptable for me to give wrong advice cause old timers know best.

 

[figgie]

and to avoid more future confusion a "mirror finish" in most shops hold a standard if an RA of 4-8 and an optical mirror is .1-.4...sorry for not being an old timer and useing the term mirror finish so loosely!!!! Maybe if I was so old and wise it would be acceptable for me to give wrong advice cause old timers know best.

my pent up on the wrong advise. It is far from wrong as the RA were used regardless if I had put the words

"A highly polished gold plated dog turd"

RA 50-30 is not debatable.

 

[87mgte]

Figgie is no slouch

I'm a believer in getting the decks as smooth as possible, but it comes to a point of diminishing returns and expense...mirror smooth is subjective as figgie pointed out...RA spec is not. If you're going with a OEM HG, a surface RA of 50 is plenty good enough...but, if it can be done smoother for no additional cost, yeah I'd go for it. A final lap won't hurt either. Like I said, flat with a stock HG is just as or more important.

ARP head stud spec is 80 ft/lbs using moly for lube. Torque in the TRSM sequence in 10-15 ft/lb increments. I highly suggest a re-torque after a minimum of 5 heat cycles...there's a thread going on now about that.

Concerning an oil flush...did you have coolant in your oil? (it appears so)
Did you run it and how much with coolant in the oil?
Is the motor in the car or did you pull it?

So 50 or smoother if the cost doesn't differ much or there's nothing additional added... got it. Yeah, some people say re-check/re-torque after 10+ heat cycles and 500 miles?

I haven't drained it yet, but with how many chocolate shakes were accumulated in my plug valleys, I don't even wanna know how my oil pan's gonna look. I probably ran it 3 times like that without knowing about the oil situation.:nono: The head's out, but the block's staying in the car.

 

[jdub]

and to avoid more future confusion a "mirror finish" in most shops hold a standard if an RA of 4-8 and an optical mirror is .1-.4...sorry for not being an old timer and useing the term mirror finish so loosely!!!! Maybe if I was so old and wise it would be acceptable for me to give wrong advice cause old timers know best.

Hence my comment on achieving a "mirror finish" and the effort/expense of achieving it.

I had experience with targeting pods on AF fighters (as an operator)...I know what a machined mirror finish looks like and that is not even close to being necessary on a 7M

"A highly polished gold plated dog turd"

LOL!

So 50 or smoother if the cost doesn't differ much or there's nothing additional added... got it. Yeah, some people say re-check/re-torque after 10+ heat cycles and 500 miles?

I haven't drained it yet, but with how many chocolate shakes were accumulated in my plug valleys, I don't even wanna know how my oil pan's gonna look. I probably ran it 3 times like that without knowing about the oil situation.:nono: The head's out, but the block's staying in the car.

At least 5 heat cycles (that means complete warm-up to cool down cycles) ...the sooner the better once that point is reached.

It's your call...once coolant hits the bearings, the damage is done. I would do an inspection at least, but if you chose not to do so, get some WalMart SuperTech oil (5W-30 if you can) and filters. Put it in, pull the EFI fuse and crank with a fully charged battery until you get pressure. Install fuse, and crank, idle for a few minutes, drain and replace. SyperTech stuff again, this time run for a 100 miles or so. Drain and replace with your favorite oil.

 

[gaboonviper85]

I agree an ra of 50 is more than perfect.....my arguement was to not get a mirror finish in professional terms....moral of the story is a mirror finish is way overkill which is what I've been trying to stress the whole time...agreed?

 

[figgie]

I agree an ra of 50 is more than perfect.....my arguement was to not get a mirror finish in professional terms....moral of the story is a mirror finish is way overkill which is what I've been trying to stress the whole time...agreed?

that is fine.

btw for clarity sake of posts, push the reply button on the post to quote it. It helps clear up who you are talking about.

 

[gaboonviper85]

I'm on my iPhone...kinds hard to take extra time to quote

 

[upgradedsupra]

I'm on my iPhone...kinds hard to take extra time to quote

Not hard to do. You have an edit button under your post you JUST made. Next to that is the reply. All "I" did to quote you was push that reply button. (Simply push the button at the bottom of the guy you want to quote )

In my world (ISO certified world) a mirror finish is is considered at no less then an ra of 12 as a matter of fact I just finished parts that required an ra of 8...

ISO is 'a management system to direct and control an organization with regard to quality'. It doesn't state that you have to have a certain RA on part.



Duane

 

[gaboonviper85]

that is fine.

btw for clarity sake of posts, push the reply button on the post to quote it. It helps clear up who you are talking about.

sorry for not makeing myself more clear and informing you all as to what uncle sam considers a mirror finish....this was my bad...I tend to forget that not everybody has a machinist hand book at there side LOL.

I hope no hard feelings...I just wanted to help this guy not fuck his head up with machine work that isnt needed or even impossible with a sand cast head....

 

[figgie]

sorry for not makeing myself more clear and informing you all as to what uncle sam considers a mirror finish....this was my bad...I tend to forget that not everybody has a machinist hand book at there side LOL.

I hope no hard feelings...I just wanted to help this guy not fuck his head up with machine work that isnt needed or even impossible with a sand cast head....

hard feelings?

nah man. take a heck of a lot more than a post in the internet But all is good!

nice to see professional from all walks of life in here Now we have a professional machinist in the house

Welcome!

 

[87mgte]

sorry for not makeing myself more clear and informing you all as to what uncle sam considers a mirror finish....this was my bad...I tend to forget that not everybody has a machinist hand book at there side LOL.

I hope no hard feelings...I just wanted to help this guy not fuck his head up with machine work that isnt needed or even impossible with a sand cast head....

And you did. Machine work is needed for OEM spec RA with an OEM HG, but I don't need/want a mirror finish. Got it.

 

[upgradedsupra]

nice to see professional from all walks of life in here Now we have a professional machinist in the house

Welcome!

2

 

[jdub]

ISO is 'a management system to direct and control an organization with regard to quality'. It doesn't state that you have to have a certain RA on part.

Duane

But a Mil spec part does
And Mil spec requires an ISO certified shop for precision parts.

 

[upgradedsupra]

But a Mil spec part does
And Mil spec requires an ISO certified shop for precision parts.

I forgot about that, my bad. ISO is good to have but is a pain that every year they show up and ask the same stuff over and over. I could understand if it was someone different but it's the same guy. It definitely has benefits having ISO certification. It would be beneficial for companies having certification as it promotes public awareness of both quality and control. The consumer awareness would improve levels of confidence/trust in the companies products and services.

But back on topic, sorry.

 

[figgie]

I forgot about that, my bad. ISO is good to have but is a pain that every year they show up and ask the same stuff over and over. I could understand if it was someone different but it's the same guy.

I would take ISO above SOX or HIPAA compliance ANYDAY!! :naughty:

 

[upgradedsupra]

I would take ISO above SOX or HIPAA compliance ANYDAY!! :naughty:

An elementary understanding of HIPAA is one of the prerequisites. LOL

 

[gaboonviper85]

ISO is a pain....right now I'm running parts on a citizen cincom turning center with about 37 cutting tools and two spindles...the parts are .0003 tolerance...and when the air conditioning kicks on my parts change size and I have to compensate for that asap.....the parts go into the workings of the system that controls the fins on the side winder missiles...

Damn you uncle sam

Shop is ISO 9001:2000

Oh and if you are into bikes we are the machine shop that makes the highend cannondale aluminum cranks....goes to show that cannondale is serious about quality

 

[slidebabyslide]

ISO is a pain....right now I'm running parts on a citizen cincom turning center with about 37 cutting tools and two spindles...the parts are .0003 tolerance...and when the air conditioning kicks on my parts change size and I have to compensate for that asap.....the parts go into the workings of the system that controls the fins on the side winder missiles...

Damn you uncle sam

Shop is ISO 9001:2000

Oh and if you are into bikes we are the machine shop that makes the highend cannondale aluminum cranks....goes to show that cannondale is serious about quality

Cannondale is still around?