AND!! Don't forget to knock the sharp edges off the area you just filed or you will scratch the bore when installing the ring to recheck the end gap like I did years ago. We also assume that you staged all the ring gaps on each piston so that they don't all line up?
Pre-lube Suggestions
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^^^^
Good point. I would suggest getting a tool to do filing fitting as well. Called a ring end gap tool.. oddly enough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ryProximity&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
Good point. I would suggest getting a tool to do filing fitting as well. Called a ring end gap tool.. oddly enough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ryProximity&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
Nick M said:
but the oil squirter im sure still sprays all over the walls, as well as the holes in the rods.
but then again not much else has to "break in" besides the rings. maybe the valve seats, or the valve train.
i never said the engine is fully broken in at 500-1000 miles, i said the rings are for the most part broken in at 500-1000 miles.
when cylinder is honed, it leaves sharp edges known as crosshatch in the cylinder. when u start the motor up the rings scrape these sharp edges and wear both the cylinder and the rings, the best more efficient way to break and engine in is to start it, let it warm up fully and drive it. take it out to a long road, and let then engine do some work. dont romp on it, dont let it rev too high, just give it gas in the range of say 2k to 4krpm at about 50% throttle, then do it again at about 75% throttle. doign this uses the combustion gasses to move behind the rings and force them outward putting alot of pressure on the ring surface and the crosshatch in the cylinder.
the reason for the most part rings break in in the first 500-1000 miles is because after those miles the crosshatch is no longer "sharp". its not totally broken in and seated but after the crosshatch is no longer sharp, it doesnt file the rings down much more.
on any motor i build, and on the motor thats in my car that i rebuilt, i used that procedure and its been running flawlessly. theres no real "broken in point" because the motor will always be continuing to wear but after the irst 1000 miles i considered my motor to be pretty much good to go. i have about 3000 on it now and i run 10psi all day long never had an issue.
i also changed the oil at 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 and i used 10w30 non synthetic oil.
I just wanted to point something out. Like I said, lubing it won't hurt anything. The oil control ring will wipe the wall mostly clean anyway. Put some Lubriplate 105 on the wall and watch it get wiped.
Discussion is always good.
The bearings are also very tight. You can hear it loosen up after you fire the engine the first time. It gets better with every passing moment. I have noticed myself, that Toyota engines are pretty tight for a good 10,000 miles, that's all.
The hone breaks down the sharp edge after the bore, not the other way around.
Discussion is always good.
The bearings are also very tight. You can hear it loosen up after you fire the engine the first time. It gets better with every passing moment. I have noticed myself, that Toyota engines are pretty tight for a good 10,000 miles, that's all.
The hone breaks down the sharp edge after the bore, not the other way around.
well the hone gives the cylinderwalls the 45 or 60 degree crosshatch, the cross hatch is then the small sharp ridges.
check out this link, he goes into more detail:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
check out this link, he goes into more detail:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I don't want to get to far off topic, but I think you are missing some info. Microscopically, this is what happens with a bore and hone. Honing gives you the tight clearance.
The very first sentence he makes kind of a monkey of himself. He says motorsports, then how the owners manual is wrong. Race cars don't get an owners manual, and long life is not their concern.
To be frank, there is a lot of bullshit on the net. And linking to a page of something I do for a living(not for sports) to show me something doesn't really show me anything.
The very first sentence he makes kind of a monkey of himself. He says motorsports, then how the owners manual is wrong. Race cars don't get an owners manual, and long life is not their concern.
To be frank, there is a lot of bullshit on the net. And linking to a page of something I do for a living(not for sports) to show me something doesn't really show me anything.
Are you kidding me?
Your break in is not supposed to be easy. The throttle is supposed to vary. No real heavy loads, but no constant easy speed either.
He is partially right in that you do not go easy. But you don't put it in a heavy load. He posted a bunch of BS, becuase he wants that hit counter to go up. Much like the really bad link on breaks in the refrence section. It is full of shit too and should be down. The link that is. But that is another topic.
I only deconstructed his jibberish becuase it was linked to and he says the hone gives you sharp edge, when in fact, it gets rid of the sharp edge and gives you your actual clearance.
Maybe he needs to call the engineers that designed engines with two combustion rings, and an oil control ring. The top ring is to control blowby. Ring number two assits ring number one and the oil control ring.
In my previous post, see the attachment. I don't know what to say. I guess that is why he says he is controversial. He wants a lot of hits on his page.
Your break in is not supposed to be easy. The throttle is supposed to vary. No real heavy loads, but no constant easy speed either.
Of the engine classes I have sat in at College, Volkswagen and Toyota, no engineer ever said that either. When the engine is started, the oil pump delivers volume to the bearings. This only takes a moment. It is called the hydrodynamic state. No wear occurs at this point. But it does take a moment. Many engines have been slowly ruined by starting the car and flooring it. The wear damage is long term, usually not immediate.
That is true. Of course he contridicts himself on the page in a few previous paragraphs. He mixes facts with BS.
This is what Toyota says to do. Despite what he said earlier about owners manual. Toyota says, start the car, wait 10 seconds for oil, then drive normal. That is it.
You really need to see the page to believe this one. He shows a farily clean piston and one that has been run rich. The combustion evident on top of the piston, well before the rings. Yet his, has no carbon, even on top. Who is he fooling?
He is partially right in that you do not go easy. But you don't put it in a heavy load. He posted a bunch of BS, becuase he wants that hit counter to go up. Much like the really bad link on breaks in the refrence section. It is full of shit too and should be down. The link that is. But that is another topic.
I only deconstructed his jibberish becuase it was linked to and he says the hone gives you sharp edge, when in fact, it gets rid of the sharp edge and gives you your actual clearance.
Yeah.... I read that same article a couple months back. Some of that stuff is factual information, but a lot of that is BS. Don't even look at his pictures because they are not good samples of what he is discussing in each section.
the point i was getting at is break in of the rings for the most part is over within the first 1000 miles.
i dont entirely agree with that picture of after hone and before hone either. i agree that it breaks down the rough spots from boring, but it also creates edges, those are the sharp edges i am refering too. using a ball hone or a stone hone, neither can smooth a sufrace without scratching it. when a surface is scratched it creats edges. the edges resulting from the hone are just extremely small compared to the edges caused by the boring stone.
i believe it would be more like this.
and after the first 1000 miles then it would look like ur after picture because the piston would wear the slight scratches and edges from honing down.
saying honing a cylinder removes the edges but does not create edges would be saying its a polishing wheel. no stone can polish something without leaving scratches.
he mentions motorsport forums as in forums like this, jsut because this is a motorsports forum does not mean there arent people running around on factory motors, its just this forum happens to be dedicated to late 80's early 90's so its rare to see someone here breaking in a "factory" motor.
i dont entirely agree with that picture of after hone and before hone either. i agree that it breaks down the rough spots from boring, but it also creates edges, those are the sharp edges i am refering too. using a ball hone or a stone hone, neither can smooth a sufrace without scratching it. when a surface is scratched it creats edges. the edges resulting from the hone are just extremely small compared to the edges caused by the boring stone.
i believe it would be more like this.
and after the first 1000 miles then it would look like ur after picture because the piston would wear the slight scratches and edges from honing down.
saying honing a cylinder removes the edges but does not create edges would be saying its a polishing wheel. no stone can polish something without leaving scratches.
he mentions motorsport forums as in forums like this, jsut because this is a motorsports forum does not mean there arent people running around on factory motors, its just this forum happens to be dedicated to late 80's early 90's so its rare to see someone here breaking in a "factory" motor.
further more, y do u hone a cylinder when putting new rings in? so that they can break in properly, and the reason for that is becasue of those edges. same reason brake rotors are resurfaced, and calipers are honed when replaceing pistons seals.
the hone creates the wear surface on the easier to wear seal witch make it conform perfectly to the wear surface to get the best seal.
also i do believe the part about how the rings seal due to combustion gasses getting behind the ring and pushing them into the cylinder walls, if that wasnt the case why would RPM and load have any bearing on the breakin of the rings?
i onyl posted that page for the information on the breakin and a better description on what i was talkign about on a "hard break in" i fully understand the wrong-ness of the piston comparason.
the hone creates the wear surface on the easier to wear seal witch make it conform perfectly to the wear surface to get the best seal.
also i do believe the part about how the rings seal due to combustion gasses getting behind the ring and pushing them into the cylinder walls, if that wasnt the case why would RPM and load have any bearing on the breakin of the rings?
i onyl posted that page for the information on the breakin and a better description on what i was talkign about on a "hard break in" i fully understand the wrong-ness of the piston comparason.
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