Planning 2014 Standalone Upgrade - Question...

[Rollus]

Did you follow the link in post #130?

I wouldn't upgrade engine management until all basic upgrades are done.
IC and pipes are one of them, your on the right way I think

 

[suprarx7nut]

Well after much thought, I am going to just upgrade the intercooler and put on a hks SSqv4 bov. No sense letting money stand in the way if doing it right. I think the new DM one that I posted the link to earlier should be good.

The only thing left is to decide on standalone and that wouldn't be until after summer

I'd be really interested in seeing before and after dynos with the ic. I'm planning on the same ic next year.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Grandavi]

I already have the before dyno (if not in this thread, its in my build thread... link above the photo)
300 HP, 367 Torque at 14 psi.

Turbo has to get replaced and then I will put the intercooler and hardpipes,etc on when I get the turbo back.. and then will dyno it once more just to check out the difference.

I think the shop turned my AFPR so that I am running slightly less fuel pressure (not sure.. have to ask them on Tuesday) because my AFR's are different, not quite as rich.

 

[Grandavi]

Did you follow the link in post #130?

I wouldn't upgrade engine management until all basic upgrades are done.
IC and pipes are one of them, your on the right way I think

That link was where I started with about 2-3 years ago to plan all of this. Its an excellent descriptor and rereading it is what leaned me into upgrading the intercooler now rather than waiting until after summer.
Just got my 1990 back with the redone headgasket and its amazing the difference between a stock MK3 and the BPU MK3... huge!

 

[figgie]

What's your budget?

Ok rules out any of the "better" options

They start at high 3k then you pay to enable functions
(I had 25k in management alone)

Hey money bags

Following IJ. I had a ton invested in gold box options. I think I was close to 32k last price check.

M800 or M880 would be ideal but seems that MoTeC just finally got the bugs squared away from the M1xx series that they promised almost three years ago. They are learning first hand why Bosch charges the stratospheric prices for their high end ECU.

Quick note

E85 has less BTU on a per volume comparative basis but you don't tune to volume. You tune to Lambda (AFR is derived from Lambda). on an equal Lambda basis, E85 has MORE BTU than petrol/gasoline.

Well, if I had the money.. MoTeC M600 is where I'd go, get all the bells and whistles with it too.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?145214-7MGTE-egr-or-no-egr

^This thread might be a nice read for you. I thought the same thing but decided otherwise after some discussion.

If you've deleted the EGR completely from the engine and have done it properly, don't fret. Simply get a JDM 7M-GT ecu and you'll be fine. Read the thread and you'll understand why.

 

[ttsupra2503]

Well from the looks of it most everything has been said that could be said from a lot of great people and a couple of people who really dont know what they are talking about. If you take offence to that first line then you probably get told to shut up a lot and are wrong a lot. IJ, indi, I never see you guys being told to shut up. I really dont know some of the rest of you but hey...

PERSONALLY (Since that is what he is asking for, personal opinions and information)
For the level of power that you want you could go either way, stay stock or go aftermarket standalone. I would go aftermarket since computer technology has jumped leaps and bounds in 24 years and I can assume that company's like AEM (not gonna list them all) wouldn't be able to sell the standalones to every race-team on the planet without doing something right. I have a friend running 28psi on his civic using the AEM v1 and he plays with his timing, fuel (duel injector setup) and a lot of other things. His standalone lets him pick out his exact injector that he is using on his motor. A standalone system will allow you to eliminate the original AFM and run a MAP and ATS system to get more accurate readings and use a wideband o2 sensor to its full ability. Many benifits in my books if your looking for running a very reliable, very tuned motor.
I do agree that it would take a long time and lots of money to set up all the temperatures manually but you can simulate the conditions nowadays with a computer and tell the system what its supposed to read at those settings. Makes a much faster tune when a computer lies to another computer. Doing it manually hasn't been done for 10 years. Sorry.. had to point that out (I hope IJ laughed at this one)

Regarding when to think about doing this... make sure you deal with your intercooler and airflow into the system first. Eliminate any restrictions you can find and make sure you got no leak points first and then decide on what you want to do. Definitely do not do the standalone then the intercooler since your tuning will be thrown right out the door when you get that new air flow.

I should be coming out to Calgary soon. PS Chevron Carries 94,91,89 and 87. My friends Civic only runs on 94 with a water/methanol injection to calm the motor down. We get ethanol blended in our gas at around 15% in the winter and 10% in the summer.

 

[IndigoMKII]

Why would I be told to shut up? That's not very nice.

 

[Grandavi]

Just to update...

60-1 CT26 now on the car and no smoking issues. DM 7MGTE Intercooler is sitting in a box behind me right now with a genuine HKS SSQV-4 bov. Hoping to have that on the car in a week or so (too much snow falling lately to move the car anywhere).

As for the octane, I will be running 91 octane almost always. This is fine though as I am tuning, but not aggressively. Dont know of any Chevron in Calgary, but Husky carries the 94 Octane. I gas up at Co-op almost exclusively so its normally whatever is in the ground there.

For the stand alone system, because I am going to be waiting for a year to go that direction, I will see what changes happen between now and then. The only reason I want stand alone is for engine stability/longevity. Its not so I can up the boost to 28 lbs or something really fun like that. I just felt that it may be the smartest thing to add after putting in so much $$ into the engine bay. For now, the AFM upgrade is going to have to serve its purpose. Just means I will be running rich and with less power until I do the upgrade. I think in the end (maybe 2-3 years down the road) I may regret just sticking with 550 injectors and a CT26 upgrade, but because I am not running on a track, the power I have now is tons of fun as is.

As a side note, just imagining having an over 500 rwhp Supra would mean a lot more money simply because I would have to account for a lot more happening between the rad and the back bumper, especially on the road. 300+ hp has shown me that my wheels are good, but not great. I would have to look at upgrading the brakes, looking really closely at the subframes, etc.. From where I sit, I probably will not go that route because I would rather put my money into keeping the body intact and fresh as opposed to wildly powerful. Having trouble using the power I have currently on the roads in a safe fashion as it sits.

I do love the fact that my set up has a nice deep rumble at idle, quiet in between and then roars at WOT. Now I guess I will end up with the BOV "woosh" sound in between shifts that the stock bov wont give.
Interior first, paint touchup/window tint around same time, drive the car for a while... then go stand alone. No rush

 

[Rollus]

Nice to see your turbo problems gone.

For your next year project, I can't imagine what a standalone could do better than the stock ECU, with all the failsafe already implemented. If you want to add safety, AEM DM32 (IIRC) could add monitoring and data logging for tenth the price of a standalone.

This statement takes in account your new power goals.

 

[Grandavi]

Well.. going to stay with stock ECU and the AFM for now. If I do shift up, it will be full bore. I generally like to overbuild my car..

I think its called being on a fool's quest... just dumping cash into the car. I dont short-cut if I can help it. (mind you.. I am not building for 1000 HP.. so it wont be super duper expensive...)

 

[IndigoMKII]

As said before, I still don't feel that the stock electronics are the best for a modified setup. You're already tricking the ecu to see less air but you're not able to control the timing for the extra air.

Toyota ecu was designed around the stock setup, not one with all the extra air flow and more fuel.

If my car was completely stock I'd stay with the toyota ecu, you'll never tune a standalone better than they did, but for a modified car I feel that a properly tuned standalone meets the needs of the higher demands on the engine.

 

[Grandavi]

No, I agree. Its a good patch but its just a "good" fix to account for the upgrades. Standalone is the only option to really handle the differences imo and from what I read. Deciding on the final stand alone majorly seems to be on who the tuner is.

Running for a year on the stock ECU and AFM upgrade shouldn't hurt the engine for the timeframe I am on. I may end up putting about 3000-5000 km on the car between now and when I go standalone.

 

[Grandavi]

Okay.. research complete... and decision made.
Will be doing the HKS F-CON V Pro (in about 1-2 years). Was really leaning towards the Motec (which would be optimum) but even the F-con is overkill for my needs and the Motec would cost me about 3000 more in the end.
There are no maps for a 7MGTE, but RCTS can create one for my car. At that time also I will be swapping in the 2jz coils and going with sequential injector firing. Everything discussed with Reg Reimer (who will be tuning it in the end) sounds like it covers all my wants and needs in this regard. Plus it gives me a lot of flexibility later on if I want to upgrade anything for more power and is dynamic enough to cover all the bases. I didn't like AEM's rigid structure or Megasquirt. Those would be fine if I wanted to learn how to self-tune (which I dont).

For now, the intercooler will be on the car tomorrow with another trip to the dyno and setup of the boost controller with the new 60-1 turbo and HKS SSQV-4 Bov. Will see how that performs.

On a different note.. the AEM UEGO Wideband is "nice", but has a lot of issues I am not liking. Great to give me a little "thumbs-up" for not leaning out, but is an "after-the-fact" monitor that doesn't seem to be very accurate (it does odd things.. like reading 17.3 AFR at startup today for no reason... ). Would not recommend this wideband to anyone after having it for a while.

 

[IndigoMKII]

I have the same wideband from DM. mine hasn't acted up just yet..

 

[Grandavi]

I wouldn't say it acts up.. but it behaves very oddly depending on air temp outside during cold start. Sometimes it will read max lean, sometimes the opposite. The only thing it does normal is 14.3 - 15.3 during cruise. Somehow the entire system has adjusted so I no longer go into a 10.0 afr reading at WOT right away... it sits more like 11.2 afr at 3200-3600 rpm with WOT. Going to be an interesting Dyno tomorrow. (or the next day). Intercooler will be on.

I was a little scared by the 17.3 afr at idle, but realised the car would have stalled out if that was a correct reading... so I just chalk it up to not a highly reliable wideband display. Good enough for its purposes.. but I could have actually gone without this meter. There must be a better one (more accurate)

 

[Grandavi]

Okay, wondering if anyone knows about this...
researching some more for the added monitors I will want when I go stand alone and I never knew this about our 7M's. Apparently we are double sparked so we get an ignition spark on one piston and an exhaust spark on the mating piston on its exhaust stroke (apparently to burn up any unburnt gas is why I think that is there). That is a small issue because electricity (if I understand all this properly) will always take the path of least resistance. Therefore, I think the exhaust spark would be stronger than the ignition spark just due to physics.

Therefore, to single time the spark, I think I have to get 2jz coil packs for my 7M and have them set up on the car properly. Its doable with the standalone I want and I think it would add to performance with a slight addition to evil environmental effects (which are of no concern to me).

Anyone done this or understand what I am talking about?

 

[3p141592654]

Me thinks you are a bit confused about the purpose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted_spark

 

[Grandavi]

No, that is what i thought, my explanation was confused.. not me.. lol.

Is there a benefit from moving away from this and am I correct that the 2jz doesn't?

 

[ttsupra2503]

Okay.. research complete... and decision made.
Will be doing the HKS F-CON V Pro (in about 1-2 years). Was really leaning towards the Motec (which would be optimum) but even the F-con is overkill for my needs and the Motec would cost me about 3000 more in the end.
There are no maps for a 7MGTE, but RCTS can create one for my car. At that time also I will be swapping in the 2jz coils and going with sequential injector firing. Everything discussed with Reg Reimer (who will be tuning it in the end) sounds like it covers all my wants and needs in this regard. Plus it gives me a lot of flexibility later on if I want to upgrade anything for more power and is dynamic enough to cover all the bases. I didn't like AEM's rigid structure or Megasquirt. Those would be fine if I wanted to learn how to self-tune (which I dont).

For now, the intercooler will be on the car tomorrow with another trip to the dyno and setup of the boost controller with the new 60-1 turbo and HKS SSQV-4 Bov. Will see how that performs.

On a different note.. the AEM UEGO Wideband is "nice", but has a lot of issues I am not liking. Great to give me a little "thumbs-up" for not leaning out, but is an "after-the-fact" monitor that doesn't seem to be very accurate (it does odd things.. like reading 17.3 AFR at startup today for no reason... ). Would not recommend this wideband to anyone after having it for a while.

Well I figure I will tell you now that I will have the AEM Infinity EMS in my car before you plan on buying yours lol. So I can always be the tester but I know from my friends experiences that I want to stick with the AEM versions. I am actually trying to work out how to make a heads up display for inside the car using a 10" asus windows 8 tablet. It will probably mean some cool wiring and a custom dash insert but I figure it would be something nice to have showing me real time information lol. I dont mind my old car being a little more high tech. I am also going to be moving a little closer (maybe 40 minutes) to you grandavi and moving into a house with a proper shop. I haven't found the place yet but I have been looking and the shop so far is more important then the rest of the house lol.

I am surprised that your having issues with your EUGO. I would see what the tuner says but it might just be defective.

 

[Grandavi]

I wouldn't say defective as such. Its just wonky at startup (cold engine/sensor still?) and after sitting a bit after a good drive.
I'm not sure how well I can trust its outer range readings, because they aren't consistant day to day. However... at cruise its always bouncing between 14.3 and 15.3 so I like seeing it in that range. Basically all its doing for me is telling me I am not leaning out in acceleration (where most of the serious trouble would occur). I'm starting to consider it a "trouble light".