painting the supra

[supr88]

I am currently preparing my car for paint, the goal is to repaint it factory colour super white II 040. The car is in pretty good shape, except for one the left rear wheel well and fender, main reason this is being done.

Also has quite a few little chips on the front bumper and fenders, but not bad. The rear fender had 1/2" or so of bondo in it from the previous owner, which has now been reduced to dust and the dent bumped out. Also that fender has been painted 3 times, needs to be stripped.

I have been doing alot of reading about the various types of paints and surface prep methods, so there is alot of info(maybe some of it misguided) tossing around my head at the moment. Also a few things I couldnt find searching.

1. Mixing paint types is not good I understand. What type of paint does toyota use from the factory, this is super white II 040. From my searches it seems to be acrylic enamel single stage, I did wetsand the car when I got it, and the material removed was solid white, no clear coat. Is this correct?

2. Enamel vs urethane paint. This has obviously been discussed many times 'in general' and the concensus is urethane is a superior paint.

It also doesnt take be being applied over acrylic enamel or laquer paints. It is kind of unclear to me though, can a primer be applied over the factory paint(roughed up) then block sanded and painted with urethane paint? basically is there a primer that will accept urethane paint and not cause problems like peeling that can go over the stock paint.

Should I strip the whole car just be safe? Or just go with acrylic enamel paint with primer over the factory paint? Is the extra effort to do a urethane paint really worth it over enamel paint?

3. Primers. at the store they seem to have epoxy primer, and a primer for lacquer and enamel. Also etching primer. Epoxy primers are used for urethane paints, but can enamel or lacquer be applied over epoxy primers as well? Is there a primer that can seal factory paint in, then have a urethane paint applied over it? Epoxy seems to be the best thing available at the moment due to its adhesion, building, and can be sanded.

4. what works good for stripping paint? ive bought a sample pack of different 2" abrasives and an arbor. has a black stripping pad, flap wheel, red stripping pad, nylon pad and sanding disc.

How carefully does this step need to be done? I have noticed if you push too hard with the stripping disc it can leave marks in the metal, either swirly patterns or deeper marks if you push too hard. Just be gentle with the stripping wheel and dont damage the metal or let it get too hot, is that the general idea?

What is the ideal finish texture if the paint is stripped to metal for primer to adhere? Obviously if you shine it up and can see yourself thats too smooth, but what works the best? Will the primer cover up the swirly marks left by the abrasive if the primer is sanded?

I know thats alot of reading and questions, but I appreciate any help. Work is being done in my garage, I have painted and done body work before, but this job is the first doing a whole car. Had alot of practice bumping dents, bondo'ing, and sanding on my rusty honda and rusty pickup.
thanks
mike
<edit IJ>

 

[toy fanatic78]

You don't need to strip your factory paint down to metal.Lacquer is the stuff that doesn't like urethane over it,can cause it to "lift",(think wrinkle paint)
Epoxy or urethane (2K)primer will go over it fine,don't use lacquer primer,it's junk.
For the chips in the front end,just use a light weight(finishing) putty and prime lightly over that area afterward.
Would not recommend stripping the entire car,that is a TON of work to start over from bare metal.
If there are several coats of paint on the quarter I would use chemical stripper to get it off,or a sanding block w/80-180 grit followed by 220-240(220-240 is the finish you will want for bare metal to primer.
If you strip all the way to metal,make sure whatever primer you use is DTM(direct to metal),or use an etch primer first,followed by standard primer.Most epoxy primers are DTM,but they typically only sand well if wet sanded(tend to gum up the sandpaper.)
The rest of the car just sand(preferably long board or block)w/220-240,followed by 320-400 grit.Use the factory paint as a "primer".Any spots you burn through you should spot prime at very least,if not prime the whole car and sand all the primer(finish is only as good as the prep work)
I think this will answer most of your questions,any thing I missed just post I will try to answer for ya.

 

[Canuckrz]

For the chips in the front end,just use a light weight(finishing) putty and prime lightly over that area afterward.

Also you could use a rattle can of high build primer on the small patches and then sand it smooth, its a lot easier to blend than spot putty I find.

 

[Poodles]

Yep, from everything I've ever heard, going to bare metal makes it harder...

 

[toy fanatic78]

Most rattle can primer is lacquer.Little trick I learned for feathering out chips is to use a piece of 80 grit on your thumb,and just twist it in the chip.Gives a good "tooth" for the putty to stick,and feathers down the hard edge of the chip at the same time.
Take a straight edge razor blade and sand the corners a little,and use that to spread the putty,makes it a lot easier to sand/feather it that way too 'cause ti's super thin then.

 

[toy fanatic78]

Yep, from everything I've ever heard, going to bare metal makes it harder...

A lot more prep work(sanding mostly.)
Not really worth the hassle unless car has been painted several times,and has a lot of paint built up,or has been painted with lacquer before.

 

[supr88]

well im pretty sure that toyota didnt use laquer paints, so am I right about the acrylic enamel being the stock paint?
what about the repainting with enamel or urethane?
so my steps to prepare would be: sand the existing paint, fill scratches and chips, strip the rear quarter with unknown layers of paint on it with chemicals, do body work on rear quarter, prime car with epoxy primer(dtm), block sand, spray. clear coat if necessary. I am willing to take the extra step of block sanding the primer over the factory paint, then applying finish. From all my reading I've done that is the key step, where the actual work begins, the rest is just getting ready for this step.

 

[supr88]

Also you could use a rattle can of high build primer on the small patches and then sand it smooth, its a lot easier to blend than spot putty I find.

one problem I have found with the rattle can primers, is identifying what they are, IE primer for enamel paint, primer for urethane.
If I've done my homework, enamel and laquer can use the same primer, but urethane is different, can only use epoxy primer. I havent found any primer at the store in a rattle can that specifically says urethane paints can be applied to it, only enamel or laquer.

 

[toy fanatic78]

I'm pretty sure the factory paint IS enamel,I know it's not lacquer.
Most single stage paints are enamel,I would suggest using a urethane base/clear system on it(better finish,and stain resistance with the white)
Urethane CAN even be applied over lacquer primer,but if you get it too "wet",(apply too much paint at once)it will react with the lacquer.
Urethane doesn't need epoxy primer,it will go over the factory paint,or other primers just fine,.But you do need to prime any body work,burn through,bare metal, etc.
Basically:
Prep car(plastic/paper off)
Fix chips,scratches,bodywork,strip quarter panel in question.
Sand (preferably block/long board) car w/220-240 grit
Primer
Block primer (320 followed by 400 grit)No need to go finer than 400 w/white.
Spray and clear

 

[Satan]

I have a black car and am planning to paint as well. Supposedly the hardest colr to paint, since flaws are easily seen. There are alot of tips and write-ups out there and this is what I've been looking at.

It is not trivial and you need to do your homework before purchasing paint. The primer and paint should be from the same system (Dupont, etc). Don't mix brands... Check out the links I've collected over the last couple of weeks. Takes about an hour to go through 'em all and each has good info.

Your're welcome!

http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqpnt.htm
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/24820/index.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/SVQ1XIEFHEJ11NQ/
http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Exterior/how_to_paint.html
http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarPainting/heartofcarpaint.html
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=6354

 

[toy fanatic78]

I have a black car and am planning to paint as well. Supposedly the hardest colr to paint, since flaws are easily seen. There are alot of tips and write-ups out there and this is what I've been looking at.

It is not trivial and you need to do your homework before purchasing paint. The primer and paint should be from the same system (Dupont, etc). Don't mix brands... Check out the links I've collected over the last couple of weeks. Takes about an hour to go through 'em all and each has good info.

Your're welcome!

http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqpnt.htm
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/24820/index.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/SVQ1XIEFHEJ11NQ/
http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Exterior/how_to_paint.html
http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarPainting/heartofcarpaint.html
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=6354

Mixing brands has no ill effect,that's mainly a marketing ploy to get you to buy their entire line of products.The paint shops I work at mix brands on a daily basis,have so for 15+ years,with no bad effects whatsoever(no warranty claims have arisen from mixing brands either)
The chemical makeup of the paint is what matters,the paint itself can't tell whether it says PPG or dupont on the can.Have even used one brand of clear with a different brand of hardener in a pinch(paint rep recommended it)with no problems.
A lot of brands offer certain products that work better/faster/cheaper,so most shops will mix brands due to that.
I've worked for 14 different paint shops since I was in high school,not one of them has stuck entirely with the same brand(even the corvette shop I worked for used standox primer w/everything else PPG global)and I'm talking $8k+ paintjobs,not backyard crap.

 

[toy fanatic78]

I have a black car and am planning to paint as well. Supposedly the hardest colr to paint, since flaws are easily seen.

Only some flaws,bad body work mostly.This is true with any darker colors,more so if they're solid color.You would be surprised at how much clear will hide in a black paint job.
White you can get away with a lot.
Heavy metallic colors hide flaws(bad body work,dings)well,but show sanding scratches quite easily,that's why most metallic colors have the primer finish sanded with 600 grit before painting.
This all boils down to proper prep work being most important to how the finished product looks.

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

If there's ever a question of incompatablity on what's currently on the car and what you're going to spray use water borne primer. They do have water borne self etching primer as well for any bare metal you have already exposed. You can not wet sand this primer. Just do you final block sanding with 320/400grit dry. Then you can use your urethane sealer, base coat & clear coat. Ask your local paint and supply store about the water based stuff. See what they suggest.

 

[toy fanatic78]

The urethane primers are compatible w/damn near everything also,only concern is over lacquer,which can be done,but will wrinkle if your first coat is too heavy(solvents in the primer "eat" the lacquer)Waterborne is typically not good for home use,takes a ton of airflow to dry.

 

[SURUKO]

:ttiwwp: :biglaugh:

 

[toy fanatic78]

:ttiwwp: :biglaugh:

Pics of what,cans of paint?

 

[SURUKO]

pics of the car in the paint process ....... i just paint my supra myself i know how good is to sand a supra .......

 

[toy fanatic78]

I don't believe he has started on his yet.Can post some pics of mine if it will make you feel better.Mine was stripped to bare metal though.

 

[supr88]

sure i have some pics in another thread, also will put some more up later of bare metal being bumped out...
another age old debate: prime bare metal then apply bondo, or just bondo over metal? I have always done bondo over metal, but it seems 50/50 both sides have their arguements... gonna try and fix this car using less than 450g of bondo, I must have ground about 1.5 pints out of the rear quarter!
and Its safe to say this car doesnt have any laquer paint on it, didnt they stop using that in the 30's? its mainly for antique and museum cars, because the paint isnt very durable but very shiney.
right now its bloody cold out which is slowing down progress alot, can only work when its warm enough, -12 right now. Need to get a heater for the garage!

 

[supr88]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89783
link to pics of the rusty scary part of the car that needs to be fixed!
and some more.
I know its a pretty cramped garage, gonna have to paint the bumper covers seperately(car is too long), and get anything that doesnt need to be in there out for the painting process.. at least I wont have to build a frame to staple plastic too, its already prettymuch there. Also will block the car up higher and bring in some halogen lights. will construct a vent system that blows out under the garage door(open it up a bit) and there are already vents in the garage, but I will somehow adapt a filter to fit over the inside, probably using the handymans secret weapon: duct tape.
also you can see the stock paint does still look good, except for the factory 'orange peel' paint job, but its still shiney. Just some dings and chips in the front bumper and head light buckets.

ready to do some bondo once I get the garage warmed up, bumped the dent out feathered the edges.. but now I am thinking it would be a good idea to strip that paint off, also on the b-pillar same side of the car the newer paint has peeled off the old paint, definately need to strip that junk off. at least I dont have to strip the whole car, just one corner aka the troubled corner.