Overheating issues

CyFi6

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Awesome I will get some of that. Condenser was not replaced because it was in perfect condition as far as fin condition goes, and no leaks. It was removed and flushed to get all PAG oil out when I went back to R12. I was close to either buying a new one or buying a parallel flow type, but I couldn't convince myself anything was wrong with what I had. After all, how can something as simple as a condenser lose its ability to conduct heat.

Also, something else I noticed that was interesting...every time I would come back to an idle and compressor speed would slow down, the suction line temp got about 10 degrees colder for a short length of maybe 10 seconds, then rose back up. Why is that? Was thinking maybe the blower speed was reduced when coming to idle, but even if I turned the blower to med speed the suction line temp wouldn't drop that quickly.
 
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CyFi6

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Well this is great, now my schrader refuses to shut itself all the way. I put an R134a fitting on the low side because my gauges don't have shut off valves for R12, only R134A. Tried running the shut off valve in and out several times and tapping around the valve with a screwdriver and nothing. Hopefully I can get this thing to close otherwise I am looking at another recovery just to get the damn gauge unhooked. Not the first time this has happened...just another reason I hate working on air conditioning...
 

Nick M

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CyFi6;1733731 said:
Correct, it is the older style that I don't believe is affected by the recall.

You read what I wrote backwards, or I didn't write it good enough. You could have one that needed a recall, and it wasn't replaced.
 

CyFi6

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Oh, well either way it doesn't matter because the TXV is not original and is basically brand new. I'm pretty sure the one that was recalled was the one that had no external sensing bulb (H valve). My MR2 had the same recall for that type of expansion valve.
 

CyFi6

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OK well I bought a real set of Mastecool gauges and got some more readings. Today it was a little cooler than usual, around 95.

First was with the car completely cold and coming out of my garage, so everything nice and cool
Blower on high, recirculation mode

Steady Cruise
Low pressure - ~8 psi
High pressure - ~200 psi
Vent temp - 45 Deg

Coming to an idle
Low pressure - 30 psi
High pressure - 295 psi
Vent temp - 52 Deg

2500 RPM stationary
Low pressure - 8 psi
High pressure - 260 psi
Vent temp - 48 Deg

Then I parked the car outside for about an hour and took off... This is after 10 minutes of driving
Low pressure - 8 psi
High pressure - 240 psi
Vent temp ~62 Deg...and rising if coming to an idle.


I picked up some insulating tape so I can get a good reading for subcool and superheat. Do I need to measure liquid line temperature right after the condenser or should I measure it right before it enters the firewall?
Thanks
 
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CyFi6

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What part of the system could the blockage be/how exactly can I find it? The TXV is aftermarket, though it looked and fit identical to OEM in every aspect. I am leaning more toward blockage as I have had more than one TXV in the system when seeing the oddly low low side pressures.
 

Nick M

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CyFi6;1735200 said:
What part of the system could the blockage be/how exactly can I find it?

The pressure gauge would show you. Think of your suction and discharge in that respect. If your condenser was clogged by something, you would have really high pressure because of discharge being blocked. But because the low is really low, the suction is blocked. Does the low go to vacuum?

3p141592654;1735193 said:
or your TXV is not opening.

This seems right.
 

CyFi6

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Nick M;1735214 said:
The pressure gauge would show you. Think of your suction and discharge in that respect. If your condenser was clogged by something, you would have really high pressure because of discharge being blocked. But because the low is really low, the suction is blocked. Does the low go to vacuum?
I haven't seen the low side go into a vacuum yet, but it gets close. Figuring out the pressures confuses, me, for instance, common sense would make me want to think a blocked TXV would cause low low side and high high side, but that isn't the case.
So if you are saying I have a restriction in the suction side, how would I narrow down where the restriction is?
Nick M;1735214 said:
This seems right.
I had replaced the TXV in the past because I suspected it was the problem. Replacing it didn't change anything, so I would be very surprised if I had multiple valves faulty in the same way.
 

Nick M

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If you are going to 295 on the high side with 200 at steady cruise, you have an airflow problem over the condensor. I can't really see anything else that would rise like that. Unless Toyota chooses not to say that in temps of 110-120 in Phoenix that is normal. For example, GM says 300 psi in high heat is normal. Fix the low side restriction.
 

CyFi6

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Nick M;1735616 said:
If you are going to 295 on the high side with 200 at steady cruise, you have an airflow problem over the condensor. I can't really see anything else that would rise like that. Unless Toyota chooses not to say that in temps of 110-120 in Phoenix that is normal. For example, GM says 300 psi in high heat is normal. Fix the low side restriction.

How do I narrow down where on the low side my restriction is? At this point it seems like a TXV issue, but is there any way to know for sure it is a TXV issue? I really don't want to go in and change it yet again only to find that wasn't the issue.

As far as having an airflow issue, the only thing that the experts could come up with is the fact that I am running a Koyo aluminum radiator that is almost twice as thick as stock. They said the higher fin count on the Koyo is causing a restriction and not allowing enough airflow. Other than the radiator, there is absolutely nothing I can do to improve airflow over the condenser. Here are things I have done to aid in condenser airflow.
- Remove condenser, clean all debris between condenser and radiator
- Make sure all air ducting is in place including the engine under cover, rubber seal behind hood, hood insulation etc. Anything I could imagine that would have any impact on airflow I made sure was in place
- Make sure all fans are working properly including upgrading to the dual aux radiator fans that were not originally on my car (made sure they are functioning properly)
- Installed a brand new fan shroud and brand new OEM fan clutch
- New fan belt
- Make sure all fins are strait on both the radiator and the condenser
- Washed the condenser exterior of any possible oil or other contamination

Thanks for the help hopefully I can get this figured out once and for all :(
 

te72

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I remember seeing IJ had a couple fans in FRONT of his intercooler on his L98 swap, would something along those lines help? Or would the fans somehow become yet another restriction?
 

CyFi6

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OK well kind of an electronics question I hope one of you guys can answer for me.

Can anyone explain how a multimeter/k type thermocouple setup works exactly? Now I have been doing a lot of reading on how thermocouples work because I was concerned that I wasn't properly using mine. Now from what I understand, there is a sensing junction and a reference junction, and the temperature of the reference junction must be known in order to figure out the temperature sensed. Now on my DMM that allows me to put my thermocouple directly into it with its own port, and gives me a temperature readout, how exactly does this work?

Such as this
475px-Thermocouple0002.jpg


I only have one idea...

Maybe the DMM has a thermistor built in that senses ambient temperature and uses that to calculate what the reference voltage is and what the sensed temperature is. In this case, assuming the actual reference junction is somewhere in the thermocouple wiring itself, if the DMM read 0 mv on the thermocouple leads, it would display whatever ambient was measured at the thermistor, and when voltage is applied from the thermocouple, it would calculate what the reference junction voltage would be based off the thermistor, and then calculate temperature sensed.

Is this correct? If this is the case, I could be getting faulty readings. My thermocouple sensing junction is clamped to the suction line, and the wire is run through the window inside the cab to my DMM. If the reference junction remained outside in the hot air, and the DMM inside in the cool air (or possibly hot sun), I would get a false reading.

Now I decided to hook my thermocouple leads directly to my DMM and strictly measure voltage. With the entire thermocouple in free air, I read 0 mv. As I put the sensing junction in an ice bath, I read .85mv. Using a chart, that is equal to 71 deg F assuming a 32 deg reference. Since my reference is actually about 72 deg F, that would put me right at ~31 deg F which is right where I would expect the ice bath to be. Basically this is telling me that there is a reference junction somewhere in the actual thermocouple wiring, if I am not mistaken.

Of course this stuff is new to me so I may be completely off track, but I just want to know how the system works so I know whether or not I am getting proper readings.

EDIT: Hmm I may be onto something... I decided to chill the DMM in the refrigerator for a few minutes, lo and behold after removing it and placing the thermocouple sensing junction into the ice bath, the temperature readout was about 11 deg F...
 
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