Oil Leak Advice Required *pics*

[Tire Shredder]

Hey guys, I need some advice on where to go with this and what to do next...

the 7MGE has been installed in my car for about 5000km and running great. One of my electric fans died and I stripped a bolt out of the water neck, so I had to work on the car to replace those things.

The car also has an oil leak (I rebuilt the motor myself) and from what I could see, it looked like the front main seal as you will see from the first pic...so I started taking everything apart.

and found this:

Interestingly, dry around the crank.

and behind the crank pulley was dry too.

little bit of dirt here, but no oil

dry in the timing belt area..hmmm this is kind of good and kind of bad news!

oily dirt here

From underneath. don't mind the red coolant and powersteering fluid. PS pump, waterneck and rad were replaced when this pic was taken.

again.

a few bolt holes on the oil pan are wet

the once spotless transmission is wet and dirty too

and yet, the back of the oil pan isn't nearly that oily...rear main??

so, it looks like that oil around the crank pulley on the front cover was creating an illusion that the front main was leaking. I'd imagine at highway speeds the fine mist of an oil leak somewhere gets spread around from the spinning belts in such a way that makes it look like the from main is leaking.

why so oily around the left side/ water pump area?

so...I ran a ratchet over every bolt on the pan and nearly all of the weeping bolts were loose...could this be the solution to my issue? why is the transmission so wet? I wonder of the rear main has been leaking...the clutch doesn't act like it's soaked in oil, would it even get oil on it?

I used "right stuff" gasket maker on every gasket that would normally be paper... brake cleaning before installation. the motor has a crank scraper, which mean liberal application of sealant. I used IJ's washer trick on the ends to prevent pan distortion. I wonder since so much sealant was used, the gasket may have shrunk a little bit as it cured, and I should have retightened the bolts.

The question is,

-where do you think it's leaking?
- anybody experienced anything like this?
- best way to repair?
- can a leaky oil pan gasket generate this much oil on the transmission?

my current plan of attack is to ensure oil pan tightness and the front plate. get the motor back together, clean everything up and use some UV dye in the engine oil and see if I can track down the leak. Thoughts, comments suggestions and experience welcome!

Steve

 

[Mk3runner]

timing case seal???? Maybe it's between block n case.. Near the oil pump shaft perhaps? Or maybe it's just a loose pan as you found

 

[IJ.]

Using Pwr steer oil Steve?

 

[Tire Shredder]

I use amsoil ATF in the powersteering.

as far as I could tell, it was all motor oil but the old pump did have a slight leak that I never actually saw on the ground. it was loud (from a junkyard car that had caught on fire) and in that pic is a new "re-manufactured" pump.

I really need to take that clutch inspection plate off to rule out the rear main too...

I was too stupid to check the tightness of the timing plate bolts.

 

[IJ.]

Time for a good degrease then add some Dye to the Oil and run it a couple of days and check again. (at this point I'd suspect the pan at the front)

 

[92TealSupra]

Looks like the power steering pump may be leaking just enough there. I would say debris and dirt that got on the lower case and made I build up.

You also have to remember when there is a leak and your going 110Km's oil or any fluid will travel. So if you have a leak in the front, you may be seeing that fluid in the back. It also looks like your oil pan on the driver side may be leaking a little as well.

From those photo's that is what I can tell from them.

-Eathen

 

[IJ.]

Looks like the power steering pump may be leaking just enough there. I would say debris and dirt that got on the lower case and made I build up.

You also have to remember when there is a leak and your going 110Km's oil or any fluid will travel. So if you have a leak in the front, you may be seeing that fluid in the back. It also looks like your oil pan on the driver side may be leaking a little as well.

From those photo's that is what I can tell from them.

-Eathen

Already been covered....

You've been warned about this type of posting behaviour and it doesn't seem to have sunk in so have a week off to think about it.

 

[Tire Shredder]

Now that I look at the pictures again, it looks like fluid is dripping out of the clutch fork hole or at leats, it's concetratiing down from there...perhaps a rear main?

I'll do just that IJ. take the tranny cover off, check it out. clean everything and put the dye in the car.

resealing that pan gasket would be a nightmare as I have a crank scraper in the car. What worries me most, is if I went through the trouble of pulling the motor again (which I think would be the only way to do such a repair properly, I don't know what I'd do differently to seal it properly. I was very careful and thought I did it perfectly the first time.

what is the likelihood of that timing plate itself leaking on the edges? it looks like there is consistent gasket maker that has oozed out the edges...

does the dye require multiple oil changes/flushes after it's use? I had intended on putting in some synthetic and using it for the summer...

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I'm watching this thread carefully. I found the exact same problem when I changed the oil yesterday. My car has a splash guard, and the very rear of the guard was oily and dirty. The front seal on my oil pan was wet, as well as several of the bolts.

Last summer my car got a brand new oil pan (original was beat up) and it was sealed with the sealant from toyota. Tranny leaked, so the tranny (auto) was dropped, a new pump put in it, and it was sealed again. For a long time, the car was dry. Then the rack went, followed by the PS pump. Then there was a coolant leak, got that fixed. Then it was dry, and now I am back to the issue you are having. AND, I have one helluva time getting the oil filter tighten down enough to not leak. No, I haven't moved it, so its in its stock location.

I am running Pennzoil Platinum synthetic. I switched the car over last year when the oil pan was replaced.

I think I'm going to cheat and run it by the shop that did all the work. Those lift things are real handy Its so difficult to see anything with your face 10 inches from the car and a flashlight in hand.

Please post what your findings are.

 

[NTRA08]

That is what my shit looked like until I fixed the PSP and lines. A little cleaning and oil never showed up again.

 

[CyFi6]

Try checking the distributor seal? Seems like it could be leaking down from up there but you only see it once it has made its way to the bottom.

 

[Tire Shredder]

thanks again I will keep this thread updated.

the distributor area is all clean and shiny, as is the water neck.

The underside (towards the front) of the water neck has some oil spray on it. whatever is leaking is coming from the lower section of the motor.

 

[Moy]

I have the same build up of oil on my PS pump and bracket (basically everything under my filter). The oil filter might not be sealing properly to the block, causing the dirtiness toward the front of the engine.

Also, how are your valve cover gaskets? Mine were leaking at the rear and running down the backside of the block and onto the transmission. That would be another good place to check if you haven't already.

Hope either of those helps.

 

[Tire Shredder]

leaks found!

I reassembled everything excluding the timing covers and degreased everything (cleaned up very easily...looks like new again) thanks to the painted surfaces.

I tightened up all the oil pan bolts and used the dye to detect any leaks. the front of the oil pan is now completley dry, and loose bolts appear to be the culprit. I could not detect any leaks after tightening in that area.

I pulled off the little flywheel cover and could see the glowing oil around the back of the oil pan dead center...indicating to me the rear main is leaking (oil pan bolts and gasket themselves are dry). there is some oil residue in the bellhousing aswell, also indicating this.

I have got the front of the engine back together, and have prepared the transmission for removal. it should be out within the next half hour or so. new toyota seal awaiting installation!

I highly recommend the UV dye stuff to help trace leaks, even if you think you know where it's coming from...it's great piece of mind!

I'm soooo happy I don't have to remove the engine!

Take care and thanks for the advice,
Steve

 

[Tire Shredder]

The repair is complete! installing that transmission in-car was about as much fun as I had imagined it...

Will update once the car is 100% on the road. tomorrow is a HG retorque, some wiring clean up and a car wash!

 

[Tire Shredder]

updating this again with some changes. turns out the front kept leaking after this work was performed and it was a nightmare to track down. Today, I decided to inspect the camshaft seals. I pulled of the black metal timing cover and found oil galore back there. Turns out the cam seals were leaking onto the back plate, and trickling down to the corners. It would run down the outside edge of the lower timing cover and get flung back up by the crank pulley, giving the impression it was the seal actually leaking.

Hopefully this thread helps somebody else in the future!

 

[IJ.]

Any reason for them leaking Steve?

 

[Tanya]

wow, what a nightmare. thought you'd escape the "tennessee" shaped hole in the 5M head now didja? D'oh..

 

[Tire Shredder]

IJ.. not that I could see, there were no grooves in the cams, nor nicks in the cam cap/head...everything looked perfect. It was hard to inspect the seal itself since I had to cut slots in it to remove with a screwdriver...

for these reasons, I am going to blame the cheap seals (ebay) which I used in the motor. There was nothing visually wrong with the rear main seal either, but a replacement with an OEM toyota seal solved that problem aswell..(2500km and hasn't leaked a drop). Live and learn, I'll never buy cheap oil seals again. and as a precaution, I have replaced every radial shaft seal in the motor with toyota ones now.

Tanya - Gah! there's always something isn't there??

It was very embarassing to have a lovingly rebuilt (and spotless) engine leaking all the time..I am glad to have it leak free now!

 

[IJ.]

Part of why I always pimp the MDS kits Steve they use Viton seals