oil catch can install

[IJ.]

I would not pull crankcase vapor into the bottom of a can. I might be misunderstanding this, but fluid collects at the bottom and you do not want any back flow to the cam covers.



Route as depicted...if you want to use 2 PCV valves:
- At the TB with flow direction toward the TB.
- At the accordion hose with flow direction toward the hose.

When did you start at Toyota Engineering John

 

[Enraged]

Take the catch can out of the diagram and connect at the two T's...is it any different than stock?

Not exactly, from what I remember about the stock system, the TB connects to the top of the valvecovers directly, so I wasn't sure if it would have the same effect (venturi effect someone mentioned in the past).

Do you know what an orifice is? How is a larger hose going to affect flow though an orifice? The stock sytem has a controlled boost leak through the TB orifice and so does this modified system...connected to the exact same location on the intake pipe (accordion hose). Like I said earlier, this "leak" is metered air (post AFM) and does not affect the engine in any way.

For the third time: You can put a PCV valve at the TB if you wish. I suggested putting a PCV valve at the intake pipe to increase vacuum on the catch can vs allowing flow from the intake pipe to the TB.

You can't compare to what Ian has done...he used a FFIM and different TB...there was no orifice like on the stock TB. In his case, a PCV valve is required.

Actually, if you read what I posted, I asked about people who don't use the stock TB. Also, I didn't know that the stock TB has an orifice not a check valve, so I learned something new.

This is a really simple system...I'm wondering why it's so hard to understand. It would help if you guys read what I write (a couple times if necessary) and understand what I said.

I've noticed in the past, and again in this thread, that you seem to get a bit pissy when people ask questions. I, like alot of people, ask questions to get answers, to learn. That is the main points of this forum, to have a community where we can understand and learn.

 

[Enraged]

I'm "special"

The stock PCV is one of the only systems from Toyota I've seen that hasn't been made mindlessly overcomplicated!

The orifice while an open boost leak while under pressure has such a small area that I doubt you could measure any difference open or closed.

Thanks. I'm running a FFIM with a BBK throttle body, so I wasn't clear on how to route the lines to have the PCV system work like stock, but with an added catch can.

edit: also, I'm running a maft pro in speed density, so the metered air isn't as much a concern.

 

[jdub]

Not exactly, from what I remember about the stock system, the TB connects to the top of the valvecovers directly, so I wasn't sure if it would have the same effect (venturi effect someone mentioned in the past).

Actually, if you read what I posted, I asked about people who don't use the stock TB. Also, I didn't know that the stock TB has an orifice not a check valve, so I learned something new.

Below are your most recent posts...care to point out to me where you said you were using an non-stock TB?

One look at the TSRM would have cleared the orifice confusion right up:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=EC&P=5

I got one of these the other day, but blowing on it, it seems to leak air. Will this be an issue under boost? I tried a few similar pcv valves and they all seem to leak a bit.

maybe im mistaken, but that seems backwards to me. under boost, you dont want any air going to the catchcan, as that will pressurize the crankcase, so the PCV valve should go between the T and the throttle body, not the T and the accordian hose, correct?

the accordian hose will always be pulling vacuum (it will never be pressurized) so why would you need a PCV valve there?

also, isn't there a small check valve in the stock TB just for this reason?

but in his drawing, the TB port doesnt blow over the valvecover ports. it simply goes to a T, and then the accordian pipe and the catch can. i realize in the stock configuration it works like you said, but on a modified setup like his drawing, wouldnt it just create a boost leak (especially becuase most people use larger diameter heater hose when installing a catch can, and particularly for people that arent using the stock TB)? thats how i understand it at least, and seems like why people like IJ use a PCV valve on the TB port.

The only comment you made was "for people that aren't using the stock TB" and it was not a question...am I suppose to be a mind reader? I also bolded the other comments you made that shows a very basic lack of understanding of how this system works. I took the time to explain it all to you and correct any misconceptions without any sacarsm at all.

Then you have the gall to say this:

I've noticed in the past, and again in this thread, that you seem to get a bit pissy when people ask questions. I, like alot of people, ask questions to get answers, to learn. That is the main points of this forum, to have a community where we can understand and learn.

I don't get pissy at all when people ask me questions...I actually provide a through answer in an effort to teach guys how to figure this out on their own. I do get a bit frustrated when I have to repeat myself 2, 3 times because guys don't take the time to read what I said...just like you did. That tells me there is a lack of comprehension -or- just plain lazy.

I have a solution for you...don't ask me any more questions and I will be happy to ignore any posts made by you in the future.

 

[Enraged]

when I read your post, the way you posted made it seem like you were angry that I was asking questions, I guess I was mistaken, sorry.

If you choose to ignore my posts from now on, feel free. Like I said, sorry for the confusion, but often on the net it's hard to derive emotion from text.

 

[MarkIII4Me]

One last question. I'm using a HKS VPC and not the AFM. If the vacuum port is sourced from the side of the FFIM (instead of the TB) with a PCV valve flowing to the manifold, will this distort the readings of the VPC's pressure sensor and effect drivability?

 

[jdub]

The HKS VPC basically converts the engine to speed density...there should be no problems. However, I would pay close attention to AFR to make sure the extra air is not causing a lean condition. The engine may need to be re-tuned.

 

[scotty]

Hey. I'm wondering about a setup. I've bought some valve covers with AN16 connections, lines and custom catch can with breater. The guy I bought it from (who has great knowledge with 7M's) says to just block up the accordian and TB end. I'm just wondering a little as he's running FFIM with the setup, so if someone could confirm that blocking the TB and accordian ends are correct then that would be great. Pic: http://www.ts-ogn.no/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=44331&mode=view

 

[Inygknok]

I'll be working on a system for my car this week Kristian and will post pics and specs of what I'm doing.

I run a simple setup from the cam boxes to the Turbo intake now and while it works it's not ideal, I intend to address it's short comings.

Since someone else decided to bring back this thread, I thought I'd remind you that you never posted the mentioned pics. I went FFIM and my TB sits far too up front to make a good routing for the catch can install and such.

In fact, I've always wondered why we use catch cans when Toyota never installed such a device in the 7M's stock form. Anyone care to explain that to me?

 

[ValgeKotkas]

Scotty, read the thread! It's NOT right to plug up the TB/accordion end, cause the PCV needs suction.

 

[IJ.]

Since someone else decided to bring back this thread, I thought I'd remind you that you never posted the mentioned pics. I went FFIM and my TB sits far too up front to make a good routing for the catch can install and such.

In fact, I've always wondered why we use catch cans when Toyota never installed such a device in the 7M's stock form. Anyone care to explain that to me?

I did post the pics just not sure where gimme a sec

<edit> Here ya go

 

[Inygknok]

Thanks a bunch!!! . I have to admit though, the routing on your setup is a bit different from what I thought had to be done.

I attached a picture of my freaking awesome Paint diagram. The green notches on the vacuum lines (black) are the PCV valves you mentioned earlier, IJ. The one next to the accordian hose is aiming towards the accordion, and the one behind the plenum is aiming towards the plenum. Since *most* catch cans only have 2 ports, I thought it was fine to do it this way. Any advantages to doing it your way with 3 different ports?

 

[twan]

i dont remember where you mentioned you which cc that is 1J. it looks like a 2 port cc with a t on the top outlets

 

[IJ.]

Thanks a bunch!!! . I have to admit though, the routing on your setup is a bit different from what I thought had to be done.

I attached a picture of my freaking awesome Paint diagram. The green notches on the vacuum lines (black) are the PCV valves you mentioned earlier, IJ. The one next to the accordian hose is aiming towards the accordion, and the one behind the plenum is aiming towards the plenum. Since *most* catch cans only have 2 ports, I thought it was fine to do it this way. Any advantages to doing it your way with 3 different ports?

You don't need 2x PCV's as the accordian never see's vaccum/boost, the valve's job is to allow a path under high manifold vaccum then close off under normal running conditions/boost

i dont remember where you mentioned you which cc that is 1J. it looks like a 2 port cc with a t on the top outlets

Correct it's a 2 port with a T, it's a Hot rod part I modded and filled with SS pot scrubbers and deleted the stock Filter on top.

 

[MarkIII4Me]

You don't need 2x PCV's as the accordian never see's vaccum/boost, the valve's job is to allow a path under high manifold vaccum then close off under normal running conditions/boost

So since the accordian hose doesn't even see vacuum, does that mean I wouldn't need to bother running anything to it (ISCV, PCV, PS vacuum) if I'm no longer using the AFM (running VPC)? I can put a breather filter on the ISC and run the T'd off PCV hose (from FFIM) and the one PS vacuum line to atmosphere? If so, that'd sure clean things up for me

 

[Grimsta]

The accordian DOES see vacuum. He's saying it doesnt switch between vacuum and boost like the manifold would. You want something hooked up to the vacuum, but when the boost hits, thats when the valve shuts so you're not pushing boost into the can. So since the accordian ONLY sees vacuum and no boost, you dont need the PCV valve.

Why do we use catch cans if Toyota never installed them from the factory? A couple reasons:
1) We use catch cans so you dont get all sorts of garbage oil in your intake tract.
2) On a forum for modified cars you're going to ask why use one if it didnt come factory? Why put a GT40 turbo on the car if it didnt come from the factory like that? Why upgrade the intercooler and piping if it didnt come like that? Why add a boost controller, or Nitrous system or use a metal headgasket and bolts or studs torqued to 80ft/lbs? Thats because the factory doesnt always know best.
NO MANUFACTURER ever installs catch cans from the factory. They have production and emissions laws they have to abide by. PCV burns the oil gases and lowes emissions, but it also coats your whole intake tract with oil and fouls CSIs. Anyways, thats why catch cans are used, not a bad investment on an engine like a 7M that generates alot more oil fumes than many other engines

 

[MarkIII4Me]

Thanks for clearing that up Grimsta.

Still, when I think about how little restriction most air filters have; how much vacuum can their possibly be in the intake pipe between the filter and turbo?

 

[Inygknok]

The accordian DOES see vacuum. He's saying it doesnt switch between vacuum and boost like the manifold would. You want something hooked up to the vacuum, but when the boost hits, thats when the valve shuts so you're not pushing boost into the can. So since the accordian ONLY sees vacuum and no boost, you dont need the PCV valve.

Why do we use catch cans if Toyota never installed them from the factory? A couple reasons:
1) We use catch cans so you dont get all sorts of garbage oil in your intake tract.
2) On a forum for modified cars you're going to ask why use one if it didnt come factory? Why put a GT40 turbo on the car if it didnt come from the factory like that? Why upgrade the intercooler and piping if it didnt come like that? Why add a boost controller, or Nitrous system or use a metal headgasket and bolts or studs torqued to 80ft/lbs? Thats because the factory doesnt always know best.
NO MANUFACTURER ever installs catch cans from the factory. They have production and emissions laws they have to abide by. PCV burns the oil gases and lowes emissions, but it also coats your whole intake tract with oil and fouls CSIs. Anyways, thats why catch cans are used, not a bad investment on an engine like a 7M that generates alot more oil fumes than many other engines

I imagined that was the reason. I did see the insides of my intake manifold when I was having it chopped up and it was........ well, dirty falls way short.

Anyways, after eliminating the second PCV valve that IJ mentioned, can I route my catch can like I did in my epic drawing? Or should I try to mimic IJ's setup?

 

[IJ.]

The accordian see's minimal vaccum it's more the venturi effect pulls vapor in with a positive pressure push from crankcase blowby, if you're seeing vaccum there it's time to clean or replace the aircleaner..

Up to you Ingy, the way I did mine worked very well I can't really comment on your layout as I haven't tried it.

 

[Poodles]

Actually, yes, some OEM's do install catch cans from the factory...