No 2JZ-GE to be found here, so that's not an option.
With the discovery of a 7M torque plate, I'm leaning back that way again - I'll look at the 2JZ tomorrow, and decide from there.
suprarich, I've found a set of Wisecos for $620 shipped overnight
Now this really amounts to which engine is going to perform best, for what I want/need it to do.
It will be daily driven - so it must be the utmost in reliability.
Reliability issues with the 7M consist of: Cast pistons, undertorqued head gasket, stock oil cooling system - Forged pistons, MHG, and oil cooler relocation fix these issues.
Reliability issues with the 2JZ consist of: Hypereutectic pistons - really, this is my only beef with a stock 2JZ, lol
Winner: Tie - either will do what I want, be it a fresh, properly built 7M or a used 2JZ
I want power to spare.
7M: Well, I ran with a mid 12 second Camaro SS - so the 7M will certainly do that I also already have a fresh bolt on upgraded turbo, DDP here, 550s + AFPR, MAFT-Pro, and a host of goodies. I ran with a 12 second Camaro SS, so I think it's safe to say I was pushing 320hp, minimum.
2JZ: I'd be running stock, for now. Twins, electronics, all of it. 320hp in a bag.
Winner: Another tie.
Upgradeability/Total Street Performance.
Toyota rated their performance engines to around a ~3900 fpm piston speed. ARP rod bolts + balanced/knife edged bottom end, and lighter pistons with stronger rods, should let me go to around ~4400 fpm max piston speed.
That said:
Built 7M: 3.2874" bore, 3.58268" stroke, stock. Assuming approx ~4400 fpm maximum piston speed, that means the built 7M has a theoretical safe RPM limit of ~7369rpm.
2JZ: 3.386" bore, 3.386" stroke, stock. Assuming the same ~4400 fpm maximum piston speed, that means the stock 2JZ has a theoretical safe RPM limit of ~7797rpm.
Winner: This will be a street Supra. I will not spin past ~7200 rpm - the force acting on the con rod goes up with the SQUARE of the piston speed - and even then will only be after I go standalone. For now, I have to assume stock rev limits - 6500rpm and 6800rpm. Either engine will exceed their rated RPM limits, but let's face it - the 7M will always have more torque than the 2JZ, due to the longer stroke. The only downside, will be assuring easy breathing at the upper RPM range. Combined with a quick spooling turbo, with a good breathing head, I have to give the mechanical edge to the 7M. The 2JZ outclasses the 7M in race trim, but on the street, driving daily, for MY HABITS OF DRIVING, the extra torque wins. 7M takes this.
Individual points
The 7M suffers from a draw through MAF, but that has been overcome. It also has the damn intake running ACROSS THE EXHAUST - just flat out stupid, but also easily fixed. Mechanically, there is no reason we haven't seen more quadruple figure 7Ms on the street - other than the lack of money thrown at these motors. In fact, I firmly believe (and Bryan Maloof agreed, having built MANY of BOTH engines) that the late block 7M is STRONGER in the bottom end than the 2JZ. The 2JZ will always make more maximum power, but I have a hunch the 7M could make more power under the curve than the 2JZ, if it were done right.
The 2JZ, on the other hand, has the following of every single import lover on the planet. Maybe my lack of interaction in the Supra community has shielded me from the blinders of 2JZ > *, but from a purely physical/mechanical standpoint, it's just a higher revving, lower torque version of the 7M. The head is better bolted down on the 2JZ, yes. The head outflows the 7M, sure. The head bolt placement is the *only* significant advantage I see the 2JZ having, all other things equal. A ~3.39" vs a ~3.29" bore is not going to change the pressure on the piston much, but the extra .20" of stroke will make a large torque difference on the crankshaft, and this will be well felt on the street, IMHO. The head flow of the 7M can always be increased via porting, polishing. I'd really like to see a 2JZ head up close. I know it has larger valves (1.32"Intake/1.14"Exhaust vs 1.258"Intake/1.082"Exhaust) - and I see no reason the valves can't be enlarged on the 7M head, without fear of shrouding.
I'll look a the 2JZ closer tomorrow, and make my decision then.
With the discovery of a 7M torque plate, I'm leaning back that way again - I'll look at the 2JZ tomorrow, and decide from there.
suprarich, I've found a set of Wisecos for $620 shipped overnight
Now this really amounts to which engine is going to perform best, for what I want/need it to do.
It will be daily driven - so it must be the utmost in reliability.
Reliability issues with the 7M consist of: Cast pistons, undertorqued head gasket, stock oil cooling system - Forged pistons, MHG, and oil cooler relocation fix these issues.
Reliability issues with the 2JZ consist of: Hypereutectic pistons - really, this is my only beef with a stock 2JZ, lol
Winner: Tie - either will do what I want, be it a fresh, properly built 7M or a used 2JZ
I want power to spare.
7M: Well, I ran with a mid 12 second Camaro SS - so the 7M will certainly do that
I also already have a fresh bolt on upgraded turbo, DDP here, 550s + AFPR, MAFT-Pro, and a host of goodies. I ran with a 12 second Camaro SS, so I think it's safe to say I was pushing 320hp, minimum.2JZ: I'd be running stock, for now. Twins, electronics, all of it. 320hp in a bag.
Winner: Another tie.
Upgradeability/Total Street Performance.
Toyota rated their performance engines to around a ~3900 fpm piston speed. ARP rod bolts + balanced/knife edged bottom end, and lighter pistons with stronger rods, should let me go to around ~4400 fpm max piston speed.
That said:
Built 7M: 3.2874" bore, 3.58268" stroke, stock. Assuming approx ~4400 fpm maximum piston speed, that means the built 7M has a theoretical safe RPM limit of ~7369rpm.
2JZ: 3.386" bore, 3.386" stroke, stock. Assuming the same ~4400 fpm maximum piston speed, that means the stock 2JZ has a theoretical safe RPM limit of ~7797rpm.
Winner: This will be a street Supra. I will not spin past ~7200 rpm - the force acting on the con rod goes up with the SQUARE of the piston speed - and even then will only be after I go standalone. For now, I have to assume stock rev limits - 6500rpm and 6800rpm. Either engine will exceed their rated RPM limits, but let's face it - the 7M will always have more torque than the 2JZ, due to the longer stroke. The only downside, will be assuring easy breathing at the upper RPM range. Combined with a quick spooling turbo, with a good breathing head, I have to give the mechanical edge to the 7M. The 2JZ outclasses the 7M in race trim, but on the street, driving daily, for MY HABITS OF DRIVING, the extra torque wins. 7M takes this.
Individual points
The 7M suffers from a draw through MAF, but that has been overcome. It also has the damn intake running ACROSS THE EXHAUST - just flat out stupid, but also easily fixed. Mechanically, there is no reason we haven't seen more quadruple figure 7Ms on the street - other than the lack of money thrown at these motors. In fact, I firmly believe (and Bryan Maloof agreed, having built MANY of BOTH engines) that the late block 7M is STRONGER in the bottom end than the 2JZ. The 2JZ will always make more maximum power, but I have a hunch the 7M could make more power under the curve than the 2JZ, if it were done right.
The 2JZ, on the other hand, has the following of every single import lover on the planet. Maybe my lack of interaction in the Supra community has shielded me from the blinders of 2JZ > *, but from a purely physical/mechanical standpoint, it's just a higher revving, lower torque version of the 7M. The head is better bolted down on the 2JZ, yes. The head outflows the 7M, sure. The head bolt placement is the *only* significant advantage I see the 2JZ having, all other things equal. A ~3.39" vs a ~3.29" bore is not going to change the pressure on the piston much, but the extra .20" of stroke will make a large torque difference on the crankshaft, and this will be well felt on the street, IMHO. The head flow of the 7M can always be increased via porting, polishing. I'd really like to see a 2JZ head up close. I know it has larger valves (1.32"Intake/1.14"Exhaust vs 1.258"Intake/1.082"Exhaust) - and I see no reason the valves can't be enlarged on the 7M head, without fear of shrouding.
I'll look a the 2JZ closer tomorrow, and make my decision then.
