Not just another 9/11 conspiracy video

Wills7MGTE

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May 12, 2006
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If you look closely you'll see large fire balls on impact, there goes most of the jet fuel. Honestly it doesn't matter what the truth is becuase the corporate owned media ad government that has no checks or balances will shut you down quicker than fuel cut at 13psi. This country is lazy and self important, at least 70 percent of it, and the other 30 percent are debunked by BS info anyways, but the BS is good enough to be believed by most americans.

If you liked the film Flight 93 than you really love a good BS story of what did not and could not have happened. 9/11 was a great script, they gavce ya a hero (flight 93 passengers) a villian (usama bin laden and his minions), they gave ya a vaictim (U.S. citizens, NYPD, and the FDNY) and they gave ya Fear. Now all they need to do is say terrorism and they can do just about anything they want.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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Wills7MGTE said:
I never said it was 100% factual but there are so many things in it that are and point to governemnt involvement.
There is not one thing that points to government involvement. Name them if they do and how they work.

It doesn't matter because liars never come clean and skeptics never prove thier theories wthout all of the evidence
This is why the conspiracy people won't back down, they know it will be hard to prove anything. The perpetrators are lying and they know it. And they took fools along for the ride.
but I would say 9/11 wasn't what it appeared

Evidence? You have none. I watched hijack planes crash into the WTC. Where are all the people if it was something else. You have to be one of the dumbest people here. That is right, that was personal. But you need to know how stupid you are.

and if you wanna think the U.S. Government is guiltless then do so,
The correct position has been explained many times. 9-11 was the culmination. Bush should have been protecting the US, but was for all practical purposes on the campaign trail. Clinton is just as much at fault, if not more. Al Quead carried on attacks for all 8 years he was in office, and his only concern was getting blowjobs from dumb interns and raping those women that tell him no.

but I will never follow that belief theres too much doubt, if they had nothing to hide they'd release the tapes showing what really did or did not hit the pentagon

Pull your head out of your ass, my God! I watched it looped over and over and over for 2 months. What were you watching? There isn't live footage of the Pentagon, but there is the sequenced photos. All the people in the FAA towers are in on it too? They were the ones trying to relay the positions of the planes to the DoD.
and why 2 towers failed from aircaft fires when its mechanically impossible to do so,

And have crashed Boeing 757's full of fuel into the Towers before? You tested them and saw that they wouldnt come down? You fool. The structure was damaged extensively from the crash, something it was never designed to do. And the burning keroscene softened the steel, it doesn't have to melt it.

and why flight 93 pasengers made succesful cell phone calls when A. there were airphones availible and B. cell phones don't work at 32,000 ft.

Yeah, all of those family members are lying. And so is the democratic leaning news media that has played some of the phone conversations. They are secretly in with Bush too.
 

rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
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Wills7MGTE said:
..... and why 2 towers failed from aircaft fires when its mechanically impossible to do so, ......

really? You're starting to sound like an experienced structural engineer. Where did you get your degree from, because I need some advice on how to overcome shear at a moment connection. If you have time, shoot me a PM....
 

Wills7MGTE

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I never said I was an engineer but many engineers and steel manufacturers have stated on and off the record that building could not have failed in that way, not to mention the FDNY radio transmitions reporting explosions in quick succession before the collapses of both towers. Theres a lot of odd things and when you add them all up the story cannot be believed in full or even in sections. I am done on this thread because all it is is a name calling flame war, if you disagree fine but not everyone will agree with you, lots of people aren't neo cons and christian right wingers.
 

skim1040

work in progress
Sorry for the late random reply to this thread...but

I just wasted that hour of my life so I want to rant about it.

Personally, I think the video is BS. The ending especially

So, the video blames this on a scandal to make money? yet notes that we went to war. How many BILLIONS of dollars are we spending on the war?
Just infuriates me that people that live and breath in this country have enough balls to doubt there own government. Don't like it? Then leave, thats the last thing we need is people like them blaming all the troubles on the Governement...
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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Wills7MGTE said:
I never said I was an engineer but many engineers and steel manufacturers have stated on and off the record that building could not have failed in that way

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Read and learn.

edit: you do not have to be an engineer to raise the :bsflag:

You also don't know wether or not that person is qualified to say the things they do. People with the JFk assination did the same thing. Saying how they were there and the CIA took their cameras, and other nonsense, when they were never there at all. But their stories stay.
 

91T breezen'

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012
Apr 4, 2005
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Wills, and Flubyux2, you guys need help!:aigo: One of you stated that all the jet fuel was gone in the initial fireball?! You have no idea what you are talking about!:nono: I've seen both gasoline, and JP (Jet A) fires, burn for hours. Several large explosions accompanied those fires too. You guys are what worries me most about this country.:aigo: That you can buy this ridiculous "lefty" conspiracy theory, lock, stock and barrel...doesn't say too much for the "youth of America".:nono:
I'm trying to be "nice", but you guys make it real difficult!:icon_mad:
 

Supracentral

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Mar 30, 2005
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Nick M said:

Nick's link about covers it.

Folks, the way some members of our government have acted since 9-11 is deplorable. Using this tragedy as an excuse to erode away a couple of hundred years of hard earned freedom is inexcusable.

Most Americans these days seem to live in a state of constant terror, and the government has done it's best to maintain that state as a tool for the quest for power. That's deplorable.

But the science and facts behind the events of 9-11 shows that it is what it appeared to be. Terrorists exploiting our free society, poor intelligence gathering and infighting between our civil servants to stage an act that was unthinkable for most people at the time. And it was a stunning success from the terrorists perspective.

And the more time you spend letting that single act tear down everything that this nation stands for, the more time you spend helping them achieve their goals, which are, simply put, the destruction of our way of life. In some areas they have already succeeded on that front. And that's also deporable.

Our elected officials engage in enough real bad behavior for you to take them on, and replace them, when the vote comes around again.

You don't need to make shit up to find fault or place blame. There's plenty of fault and blame to go around.

However, I've said my piece on this topic. I'm not debating this issue. If, after looking at the facts, you still believe this conspiracy nonsense, we have no common ground for rational discussion on the topic.
 

Wills7MGTE

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I never said I believed it all, and I don't just look at one source, I've looked at others and there are lots of suspicious documents floating around.

I'm sorry I make it difficult for you to be nice, maybe everyone on here should ban politically charged threads all together.
 

Wills7MGTE

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Originally posted by: Skim1040

Sorry for the late random reply to this thread...but

I just wasted that hour of my life so I want to rant about it.

Personally, I think the video is BS. The ending especially

So, the video blames this on a scandal to make money? yet notes that we went to war. How many BILLIONS of dollars are we spending on the war?
Just infuriates me that people that live and breath in this country have enough balls to doubt there own government. Don't like it? Then leave, thats the last thing we need is people like them blaming all the troubles on the Governement...

__________________________________________________________________

This statement is just wrong on so many levels, as an american citizen you have the responsibility to question anything the government says or does, I am not saying it was a conspiracy but I am saying there are a lot of things that are either untrue or exagerated. Your just plain being closed minded, and if I don't like it get out, sounds a lot like 1939 germany politics right there. You can't hold the government as unresponsible for troubles because they directly effect the economy, jobs, energy, resources, and the military. They may not be completley at fault for how screwed up things are but they sure did have a hand in it. I realize at this point on my post you're already preparing to call me an asshole or a dumbass or whatever, but I don't really care.
 

flubyux2

Madd Tyte JDM yo ®
Apr 2, 2005
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im proud of you people.

you did exactly what i was hoping you would do. that is, to say, finding evidence, reports, statements and sources to substantiate your beleifs and your opinions.

saying that one person is full of shit, calling them names and ridiculing them for what they say and having no way to substantiate your statements is just silly. actually providing the material to refute someone's statements and prove your own is uncommon.

this is exactly how a civil discourse is supposed to work. one side says something, the other side presents their findings, and so on.

so, w/ Nick's link to the popular mechanics article, i can fully understand. so, lets say that everything happened the way PM says it did. who's to say that the government didnt have prior knowledge? and who's to say that it wasnt orchestrated by the government to create a fear in the nation so that we would be agreeable to invading iraq in the search for afghani terrorists?

what about the allegations that the bush family is friendly w/ Osama's family and the claims that the bush's have been seen cavorting w/ said people? what about the claims that the bush's oil fields were gifts from the people that we are supposed to be hunting down?
 

Supracentral

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Mar 30, 2005
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flubyux2 said:
what about the claims that the bush's oil fields were gifts from the people that we are supposed to be hunting down?

Allegations, claims, rumors...

Show me EVIDENCE. If ANY of that stuff is true, the man should be tried for treason and summarily shot.

I'd wager you aren't going to find that evidence, not today, and not tomorrow. And not because the "machine" has done such a good job of covering for itself. The government is borderline inept when it comes to this stuff. Look at the low approval ratings and public opinon the current administration faces.

Are you trying to say that these people (the ones who can't even manage public perception of a war correctly) are somehow capable of not only executing, but covering up, the largest most horrific conspiracy ever concieved?

Since I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, I can look at this from the perspective of someone who despises BOTH parties. I find the politicians on both sides of the fence to steaming piles of dog squeeze. And I think even less of the lobbyist crowd.

Seriously. I want you to look at this picture:

bush_georgew.jpg


Really look at it. Stare at it.

Is THIS the man you are saying has outsmarted the world? Seriously? For over 7 years? Really? This man has masterminded the most horrific consipiracy ever? Made it all work?

:: giggle ::

C'mon folks, Bush and his cronies are NOT that smart.

This is partisan mudslinging at it's finest.

Guys, vote him out of office if you feel that's the right thing to do, but stop with this goofy conspiracy stuff, it's pathetic.
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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hmm

i saw this thread goofy and did not respond.... i guess i will now.

i find it funny how thing that actually took place and were video taped, somehow turned into a conspiracy.. i really like the thermite nonesense....

skyscrapers are designed to fall DOWN not topple over. Otherwise you have that building plus the 1/4 mile of other building+ people+ property getting destroyed as the building topples over. That requirement of a "skyscraper" imploding on itself is incase of the "worse case" scenario. Care to take a guess what those two airplane v. the WTC were in a statistical sense?

if you said anything but worse case scenario you are wrong!
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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grrr

man people are soooo "imaginitive" for lack of using my choice words I want to use.

Why didn't the military scramble jets to intercept.......

never in the history of the US has the military intercepted a civilian aircraft or vehicle with the intent of destroying the said civilian vehicle (before 9/11). Just like the people on board those very aircraft would not have just complied , especially with "guys" armed with only box cutter if they knew what thier fate was.

Hindsight is always twenty twenty and this speculative bullshit that the military was slow is complete and utter bullshit!
 

Supracentral

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Mar 30, 2005
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Simply put, the reason the 9-11 attacks worked is the audacity of the plan, and the simple fact that doing something like this (crashing planes into a major structure like the WTC) was, in a word, unthinkable. Prior to 9-11, few people believed that groups like this were capable of this kind of thing. And certainly not here in the USA. We as a nation thought we were safe. We have always felt safe, as our enemies are far away, and didn't have the resources to reach us. During the cold war, all we worried about was getting nuked. After the iron curtain fell, most Americand developed a pie in the sky "no one can touch us here" attitude.

That's the mindset of the country prior to 9-11. Get that into your head when evaluating actions and reactions at the time.

A lot of you folks are pretty young. You don't clearly remember the 30 years prior to 9-11. You really need to understand that period of our history before you go spouting off about actions and reactions.

Here's something to else to consider. Prior to 9-11, the government & media, time and time and time again drilled into people's heads, if you are kidnapped by terrorists or hijackers, cooperate. They won't hurt you if they get what they want. People believed this, and 99 times out of 100 it was true.

9-11 changed that. You could never hijack a plane with a box cutter, knife or pistol easily now. The passengers and crew would kill you.

Sun Tzu said in the Art of War " An enemy with nothing to lose will fight to death to win". The implication being that you never want to create an enemy who has "nothing to lose". And you never want to face such an enemy.

And this is what Al Queda inadvertently created in the American populace by engaging in the 9-11 attacks. It's what makes some of these new rules about what you can and can't carry on a plane so ludicrious. If you tried to hijack a plane with me on it, I'd tear your throat out with my teeth if I had to, regardless of what weapon you held, and I know I'm not alone. Why, because now a passenger on a hijacked plane has nothing to lose...

As for arguments about jet fuel and all that nonsense, please remember the WTC was not a giant empty shell. It was filled with offices, paper, computers, plastics, cubicles, carpet, wiring, and sadly people... This is FUEL people. Fuel for a blazing inferno ignited by the plane crash, and then there's the plane's associated fuel load as well. A fire 1000 feet above the ground in high cross winds in an enclosed structure with gaping holes in the side and MASSIVE structural damage that the building was not meant to withstand. Remember these were not aircraft cruising along that just happend to hit the building. These were planes that were running their engines at full takeoff power, they were pushing these things as hard as they could when they crashed them into these buildings. Engineers design (especially prior to 9-11)around accidents, not intentional disasters. Remember, this was unthinkable.

Also, can you imagine the crosswinds at the top of that building? Remember it's a wind tunnel up there. Those floors were blast furnaces after that impact. Running wild with an almost unlimited amount of fuel. It's a recipie for disaster. Steel weakens when it's hot. It didn't take much for those top levels to come down on the others.

People want to feel safe. People want to be sure "nothing like this can ever happen again...". And it's my opinion that this is what motivates many of you when it comes to this consipiracy stuff. If you allow yourself to admit that this event is truly a random act of terrorisim, you won't feel safe. You'll have to face that fact that it can happen again. And to face the other horribile fact that it probably will happen again, from a direction we didn't expect. How we live with that fact is the true measure of what we are. So far, I'm not very encouraged by our reactions.

We (both our soicety collectively, and our politicians) have allowed this event to change the way we value the freedom we have. We've used this event as an excuse to restrict liberty in the name of security. When it comes to many of the anti-terror policies and laws being foisted upon us, the cure may be more deadly than the disease.

Ben Franklin once said, "They, that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I'll be sorry to see this proven true in my time.

I want you to stop and pause to consider the fact that governments have been by far the primary and most lethal instruments of terror in the history of mankind.

Men like Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, and a list of other dictators have proven to be the absolute most effective terrorists. But you need the total control of a dictator to use government as a tool of terror. And every day that passes, we hand a little more of that "total control" over to the government.

I don't think that 9-11 was a government plot to do us all in.

I do however think that we are now creating the very monster that you guys are railing against. As we allow government to take away our rights under the guise of "homeland security", we slowly create something that none of us can live with.

If you folks put 1/2 as much effort into electing a government that actually values liberty as you do into chasing down these nutty theories, we'd be living a lot closer to utopia.
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
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I think, that for the most part, people want to believe it's a government coverup because then it's not some force that is harder to deal with. We want it to be government because then we can get mad at it, rally against it, and beat it. You can't beat a bunch of guys that want to die killing you. It's hard to win a war against people who actually want to die. It throws all conventional warfair out the window. Now you actually have to be the attacker! You have to kill them before they have a chance to kill themselves along with a bunch of you! Americans don't want to be thought of as the big bullies that kill other people when there really isn't a war going on.

It goes back to the whole knife argument. But instead of that knife, it's a guy running at you with a bomb, and he wants to die, killing you. So now you have a choice, you shoot him before he gets close enough and deal with the fact that it might not be a real bomb, or you let him get close to you, and try to defend yourself.

Defence doesn't work with this enemy. They will kill you. But we don't want to believe that, it's just too scary. We want someone we can be defensive with. America has encountered a new enemy, it's not an enemy we can scare away with our armies, it's not an enemy that is all in one place so we can just go and take them out. It's not an enemy that wants to fight for freedome, or money, or power. It's an enemy that only wants to kill you, because it doesn't like the way you live.

Think on that. Realize that you do have a choice. Be aware. We, the people, are now the best chance our country has against this type of enemy. Our Government is too busy throwing mud, and trying to gain power. It's now the people's war. And you don't even need a gun.
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
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Another thing I found wrong with that the first video said was this. Steel melts at XXXXc. Well yes, that is when the metal is actually able to be poored into a shape. Metal weakens far sooner than that. Want proof? It's really easy to get. Just get yourself a piece of steel, and start heating it with a torche. It might take a while, but it will start to get red. At that point, it's actually very easy to bend it. And it's not even close to being a liquid.

Now wait for that steel to cool down a little, after it's not red anymore, bend it again. Even though bending it a couple of times weakens it, you'll still be able to cool it all the way down, and have a very solid structure. However, those steel beams only need to get half as hot as it would take to totally melt them to make them weak.

And as someone else said, jet fuel wasn't the only fuel there. Plastic, carpet, papers, metals from the computers, other things that, when given enough time, will create more heat than could have been created just with jet fuel.

Now, this stuff I know just by taking body shop class, and being in the contruction trades. Use your minds guys.