no head gasket?

[TooGoode]

so some of you know i had oil leaking from between the back timing plate and the bottom of the head....so i took off the plate today (with the head on) and took a mirror to the part of the head that the plate touches and noticed there was no head gasket there. i could see a little bit poking out from between the head and the block but there was none inbetween where the back timing plate cover touches the head. i also noticed two holes in the head. (oem not pits/cracks). is oil supposed to go through there or does the head gasket block that off? thanks guys...

 

[TurboFreak]

so some of you know i had oil leaking from between the back timing plate and the bottom of the head....so i took off the plate today (with the head on) and took a mirror to the part of the head that the plate touches and noticed there was no head gasket there. i could see a little bit poking out from between the head and the block but there was none inbetween where the back timing plate cover touches the head. i also noticed two holes in the head. (oem not pits/cracks). is oil supposed to go through there or does the head gasket block that off? thanks guys...

...k. First. There has to be a HG. There is only one HG and it traces the outer rim of the block. You may not see it but I guarantee its there or else you'd have some major issues.
EDIT: Ok I see that you are talking about a gasket that gets sandwhiched vertically in between the back timing cover and the head. No such thing.

Second. What two holes? Got any picture to describe them a little more in depth? They aren't threaded are they? Do they have fluid in them?

Could the leak be the front part of the valve covers? Has it ever BHG or is it OEM? If its had a BHG, did the person put RTV or FIPK under the first cam cap on each of the cams? Also, could it be one of the cam seals leaking?

Are the holes in this pic?

 

[jdub]

Ben - you need to read his previous thread on an oil leak from the front of the head. He neglected to read the TSRM when doing a HG job and did not put RTV on the rear timing plate in the locations specified. The holes he's talking about are on the front head deck (can't be seen in your pic).

Both are a vent/drain to the crankcase. Both the stock HG and MHG's have provisions for them...the HG should stick out to surround these holes.

That is unless you put the HG on backwards...is it sticking out on the rear of the motor?

 

[TooGoode]

there is no headgasket in between the head and the timing plate. it looks as though someone got a razor and cut it so they could put the plate on without having to take off the head. the two holes that are visible when i look under the head with a mirror are circled. the head and block are new from toyota with 150 miles on them. yes one hundred and fifty. the previous owner put the short block together and i finished it up.....

 

[TurboFreak]

there is no headgasket in between the head and the timing plate. it looks as though someone got a razor and cut it so they could put the plate on without having to take off the head.

No gasket goes in between the rear timing plate and the head. Anyone can take the timing plate off(or on) without taking the head off...
Like J-Dub mentioned, some spots do get RTV. Refer to the TSRM for those spots.

 

[TooGoode]

No gasket goes in between the rear timing plate and the head. Anyone can take the timing plate off(or on) without taking the head off...
Like J-Dub mentioned, some spots do get RTV. Refer to the TSRM for those spots.

im not saying separate gasket.......im saying that it seems part of the head gasket was cut......

 

[jdub]

Ben - Actually it does...the HG covers most of the top of the timing plate. That's why the timing plate MUST be machined along with the block when decking.

 

[Poodles]

im not saying separate gasket.......im saying that it seems part of the head gasket was cut......

it's either on backwards or it was cut... who did the headgasket job?

 

[TooGoode]

Ben - Actually it does...the HG covers most of the top of the timing plate. That's why the timing plate MUST be machined along with the block when decking.

so with it not being there, is that going to creat a problem? could i just put new gaskets and rtv the top of the timing plate before i put it on?

 

[jdub]

You better check it's not on backwards.

Poodles - TooGoode put the head on.

Speaking of that...since you put the HG on, you said:

it looks as though someone got a razor and cut it so they could put the plate on without having to take off the head.

So what really happened here?

 

[TurboFreak]

Ben - Actually it does...the HG covers most of the top of the timing plate. That's why the timing plate MUST be machined along with the block when decking.

Man, I fail. I knew I shouldn't have tried to help, haha. Thanks for helping the guy out after I gave him bad info....

 

[TooGoode]

actually i didnt put the head on. i got it with the head on...it was in shortblock form.....the headgasket is not backwards...nothing sticking out of the back....

 

[Poodles]

The only explaination I can come up with is some backwoods idiot thought it was a good idea to cut the HG because he forgot to get the rear timing cover machined with the block...

Can you get a picture?

 

[jdub]

Yeah...that's what I was thinking too. And, that is not good :3d_frown:

 

[TooGoode]

Yeah...that's what I was thinking too. And, that is not good :3d_frown:

so not good as in replace the hg? i have a new one chilling in the garage, the arizona sun just takes up all the damn energy i have...i guess im gonna drop in a new hg and get this done right!!

 

[IJ.]

Been following this on the other Forum, as I said you need to verify that the timing case and block are the same height.

Sounds like the guy that assembled the engine needs a :kickinthenuts:

 

[jdub]

If the timing plate was not machined, it sticks up higher than the block deck. That can cause the head to not fully seat on the HG affecting the seal. In your situation, it looks like the PO recognized that and cut the front of the HG off in a ghetto attempt to get the head down far enough to seal on the HG.

Your options are:
1) Make sure there is no HG material (at all) forward of the block deck and hope for the best. It will all depend on how much material was removed from the block deck. Put RTV on the top of the timing cover and cross your fingers.
2) Remove the head and basically do a HG job. Make sure the timing plate is flush with the head deck.

Me? I would go with option #2...there's no telling what else the PO did.

 

[IJ.]

New block old timing case so it could possibly be lower Dub

 

[TooGoode]

New block old timing case so it could possibly be lower Dub

true that....

 

[jdub]

Just make damn sure it's lower or flush like IJ said
The missing HG material should help....I'd put a bead of RTV across the top of the timing plate.