no boost? Do I have a turbo?[fixed, w/ new problem]

[MA70Snowman]

Okay guys, i've been out for a loooong while. Been doing a slow rebuild over the past year. anyway to the point. finally got a "stable" tune on the engine and drove her for the first "extended" trip. (maybe 10 miles).
and what I noticed is it won't boost. I'm not trying to floor it, still babying her for a couple more miles, but I'd like to work out as many bugs as possible. So my problem...

Symptom-
Accelerating up to 3500-4000 Rpms, and no boost is seen on either the profec B spec II, or my boost gauge (after market boost gauge) I don't hear my HKS BOV either. It really feels like an NA I don't even hear back spool or nothing.

Car setup- (relevant to turbo)
Turbo - SUPER 70 60.5mm • A/R RATIO .70 • TURBINE HOUSING A/R .84 • COMPRESSOR HOUSING .70 • T4 FLANGE
Fleabay t4 manifold
HK$ waste gate
HKS SSQV BOV
Fleabay intercooler
MAFT PRO - running Speed density no boost control capability
Greddy profec B SPec II boost controller.
Ditched the EGR system, and the PPS.
Running a vacuum manifold witch is ::OLD SETUP::T'd into the Break booster hose.::NEW SETUP:: booster now feeds like stock and the vacuum manifold now feeds off the front side of the manifold on its own port, and that manifold feeds the boost controller/gauges etc.
no stock O2 sensor- running the system in Open loop to allow tuning of MAFT pro.

Diagnostics-
AFRs are a steady 12-14 through out the RPM band.
Fuel Pressure is static 32 PSI
No vaccum leaks.
The car does NOT stumble or stutter during acceleration like it would with boost/vacuum leak.
Drives/idles great minus a slight flucuation during idle (it'll sit at 1000 rpms slowly climb to 1500 then hang there for a second and drop back to 1000 total time for a cycle is about 45 seconds)
Only codes are a 24/32 due to the MAFT pro (i haven't put the resistors in to get rid of them, but this is a issue w/ the MAFT pro)

So any input on where the issues could be at. I've tried messing w/ the Profec B spec II, but I'm not seeing ANY changes at all. I double checked plumbing/connections and all are good. So any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[AndyMac]

checked the hotside cooler pipes?

maybe take the intake off the turbo and see if the wheel wheels spins freely???

 

[AndyMac]

its a pretty large turbo and its not BB so its going to be late to spool.... do you have any exhaust leaks of any kind?

manifold leak?

 

[jdub]

Route the gauge and boost sensor straight to a dedicated port on the intake manifold.

 

[MA70Snowman]

checked the hotside cooler pipes?

maybe take the intake off the turbo and see if the wheel wheels spins freely???

Turbo Spins freely.

its a pretty large turbo and its not BB so its going to be late to spool.... do you have any exhaust leaks of any kind?

manifold leak?

Yeah I know its a large turbo and was expecting a longer delay but I figured 3500-4000 I'd see SOMETHING.
No exhaust leaks.

Route the gauge and boost sensor straight to a dedicated port on the intake manifold.

I'll give that a shot, but hows that different then using the Vacuum manifold?

 

[jdub]

You don't have a brake booster sucking off a boat load of vacuum feeding the vac manifold. The boost controller and gauge should have their own dedicated vac source.

 

[supra_joe]

Do you have a waste gate installed and is it closed?

 

[MA70Snowman]

You don't have a brake booster sucking off a boat load of vacuum feeding the vac manifold. The boost controller and gauge should have their own dedicated vac source.

Simple.. makes sense.

Do you have a waste gate installed and is it closed?

Yes as the Original post showed, I have a HK$ wastegate plumbed in. and as far as I know it should be closed. I don't really know how to check if its operating correctly or not.

 

[Crypton2006]

Have you verifed valve timing. Have had this exact problem on a car and the valve timing was off.

 

[MA70Snowman]

by valve Timing i'm assuming you're talking about timing at the cam gears correct? if thats the case. then yes my timing is good.

I've got crank at TDC 0* and both marks on the cam gears are aligned w/ the notches at the top. at IDLE my timing -12* with the Diag block jumpered, roughly at 1000 rpms.

 

[Crypton2006]

by valve Timing i'm assuming you're talking about timing at the cam gears correct? if thats the case. then yes my timing is good.

I've got crank at TDC 0* and both marks on the cam gears are aligned w/ the notches at the top. at IDLE my timing -12* with the Diag block jumpered, roughly at 1000 rpms.

I think it should be +12*. Although i dont think this is causing your problem. I had my ingnition timing retarded once and it almost seemed to build boost faster although i have no real proof of that..lol

Have you really gotten into the gas at 4000+ its a pretty large turbo and even if you are in the boost range it still might take a few seconds to build once you floor it. If you have done this is it going very rich during that time?

 

[MA70Snowman]

okay i think it might be +12* it sits between the 15 and the 10 marks on the timing cover, i'm not sure if thats + or - i forget.

Honestly I have not "gotten" on it in the 4000+ range, I have been trying to baby it so didn't want to push it TOOO hard, not until I have a SOUND tune on it (right now its a rough tune, but drives pretty nice, still some hic-ups i'd like to iron out) and I have a feeling i might see some boost in that area, but I would like to make sure everything else is good before going that route, incase something IS wrong I do'nt want to mess up a fresh engine or turbo.

 

[grimreaper]

you can "walk" the car up to 4000rpms with minimal throttle which means little load and no positive pressure. The motor has to be loaded to build boost.

 

[MA70Snowman]

you can "walk" the car up to 4000rpms with minimal throttle which means little load and no positive pressure. The motor has to be loaded to build boost.

I understand the concepts. However you don't have to have the Peddal to the floor to build boost. IF we need a solid measurement, I've probably gone 3/4 throttle upwards of 4500 rpms. and if i'm not seeing boost then what i can see there IS an issue.

I will try and replumb the vacuum manifold so its not sharing the same source as the break booster. whats a good spot to tap into? I don't have the EGR system or the PPS would one of the now available spots under the manifold be sufficient? since w/o either of the sytems they have vacuum but aside from my AFPR they feed nothing else. and its one of the "larger" ports that I can think of.

::NINJA EDIT::
Okay re routed the vacuum manifold. The break booster is now feeding stock. The Vacuum manifold now goes to the front part of the intake manifold (the port closest to the nose of the car) seeing as how i no longer need that elbow it feeds. I just re-routed the AFPR to feed of the vac. manifold also. Did a test drive, a coupule of 2nd and 3rd gear pulls (up to 4500 RPMS @WOT) . I can hear the BOV (VERY faintly) and maximum boost according to the Tuner Pro, was 2.34 PSI. I cranked up my boost controller but saw no noticable changes. hmm....
here's a link to a post of how my Profec B Spec II and my HKS wastegate are currently hooked up. http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102806

 

[boostin300]

Probably a loose vac line from the gate to the compressor or somewhere along the boost controller path. A vac leak will throw everything off. Either that or your spring is busted in pieces and not keeping the wastegate shut like it should to up the boost.

 

[MA70Snowman]

i'll verify a vac leak. but the wastegate is brand new.

 

[dumbo]

I would run a boost leak test on you IC and piping to confirm no leak, bad part of Spd+Density I think. Can quickly overspeed your turbo if it is leaking.

 

[Crypton2006]

A turbo that size should still be able to build at least 10 pounds with a good sized leak. I think you need to look at the W/G. It would not be the first time a brand new part didnt work right.

 

[Crypton2006]

Or your tune is really just that bad.

 

[boostin300]

Yeah, if you're never breaking vac getting into boost then your wastegate is severely stuck open lol.. like a lot stuck open. Even if the seal was bad and it was leaking a little.. you would still boost up. The thing is, even if your tune sucks the biggest balls ever you still have exhaust coming out the motor so your turbo should still spool up.

1) Vac leak somewhere, causing gate to stay open
2) Gate sucks and stays open, could very well be a broken spring
3) Valve in the gate is broke in half or something so exhaust is getting by
4) You have a giant leak somewhere in the intake tract.
5) Your boost controller is goin nuts making the gate stay open somehow.

Either way, if you KNOW you have no HUGE leaks in the intake tract (giant hole in your IC piipes??) then your gates busted to hell or something affecting the gate sucks.