A lot of you guys are asking for pics of the FFIM I have been working on, here they are. Third pic is one of the porting done inside at top of ports. (Sorry, I am not a good photographer) Please chime in on your thoughts.
My FFIM pics (a little better this time)
- Thread starter PowerTrip Performance
- Start date
MDCmotorsports said:
I have a Miller 251 with the "Spool Gun" option. For those who don't know, it's a lot like wire feed mig, but with aluminum. Its take a lot of practice, and its not forgiving what-so-ever, but with practice and patience it can look pretty good. Certainly not a Jessi James roll of nickles, but it get the job done. Uses 100% Argon.
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Maybe if you rounded out the runner inlets inside the manifold it would promote a smoother flow into each runner?
Silent Deatz said:I like it
@starscream5000
Where did you get the picture in your signature?
Take your pic
: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=520240&postcount=13starscream5000 said:
Are you friggin' kidding me??? I blended that baby out to baby butt smooth perfection. Its almost like velocity stacks in there. You must not have looked at the third picture??? It should flow extremely well.
I respect this, MIG on aluminum is a PITA, even with a spool gun. You really have to have skill to make a decent piece of work. One mistake and the whole project is garbage. Great job.. go ahead and have it flow tested to prove that it's efficient as well.
sethron71 said:
Good question...I guess I just didn't want to copy Ron's design first of all. Then I wanted a design that would bring the largest volume of air possible into the plenums opening, then I wanted it to be tapered, then I wanted it to not just be a blunt flange welded to the runners, I wanted the plenum to sort of act as a velocity stack in its self. So I sat down with the pen and paper and sketched it out. Its real easy to draw something amazing on paper, and much more of a challenge to design something that can actually be made into true form. I really liked it, it has good lines (much like good body lines on a vehicle) It is unique, its got function, and it should make increadible power, and it'll fit. The one you guys saw is the prototype (first of) I have plans to clean it up a bit, I want less welds showing, and less of the stock mounting flange. I would really like to do one with straight runners (velocity stacks of course) but with the back two runners barely having enough room as is, I don't think that will be a possability? Anyways, sorry to run on and on. Thanks though Sethron.
hottscennessey said:
Thanks a lot! Like I said, it is an aquired skill for sure. Its very easy to screw the whole thing up. I can't wait to get some numbers on this thing, although I am more interested in seeing dyno numbers than a flow chart. Both are important, but I have no doubts in my mind that this thing will have amazing flow numbers, but that does not neccessarily mean it will perform well on the motor. Things like plenum volume and runner length play the key rolls here. Go to big and it'll fall flat on its face, too short of runners and you'll have no low end torque, the list goes on. I think I have a wicked combo. We'll see soon enough.
PowerTrip Performance said:
I'm basing my suggestion off of some blending pictures I've seen off of Ron's product, and I would post up the example I'm thinking of, but my work computer will not show 99% of his pictures that he posts up (it's on either the first or second page of his thread).
After looking closely at your pic (and yes, I did look at it before I wrote my first suggestion) I do see that it's been blended, the flash from your camera is misleading.
starscream5000 said:
The top of the stock ports where the stock plenum flange bolts up, is prolly (estimating...I didn't measure it, so I don't need to be corrected those of you who like to do that):naughty: about 1 5/8" or so, anyways, I blended it from that to about 2.5" or so it the top of my stack. Its a smooth transition, I did not overlook that aspect of the manifold. I just found a pic of one I did a while back before I changed my plenum design, but it'll give you a better idea of what my porting looks like. See the attached pic.
Attachments
It looks good but you simply will not sell any of these without a flow chart. I think your product looks great and i mean no disrespect in saying this, but to not have this thing flowed and try to make power on it just dumb. You are risking your engine. Please flow test it and get back to us.
-Charles
-Charles
yrallofthenamestaken said:
Already have sold two, but thanks for the tip. As for "risking your engine" ummm....I don't see how. I haven't seen any flow numbers on any aftermarket manifold available other than Rons (at least not supplied from the manufacture) If I made some totally abstract looking manifold, I could see needing something like that in order to sell it, but when tried and true tecniques are used, its kind of a no brainer thats its gonna work (well sometimes) This is not by any means the first intake manifold I have built and sold, I've had nothing but great success with them. FFS (for fucks sake):biglaugh: I make indivdual throttle bodies for Hondas, if I can make those and actually show improvment on the dyno, I can certainly make a manifold plenum for a 7M work. I am waiting on a dyno sheet from a customer who has purchased one (it wan't a local buyer, or I would already have it done)
PowerTrip Performance said:
I was not doubting your ability to produce a functioning manifold, my point is that you have no idea if all of the runners flow equally (or close). Now, lets say hypothetically that #1 is flowing considerably more air than 2-6 with this manifold. I go to tune my car to 12.0:1 on the dyno under boost, (not that i would tune that high but a lot of people do) what do you think will eventually happen?
I am not questioning your abilites, so please don't take it as such. Your design is not proven (just like all designs aren't at some point). I highly doubt Ron R. sold any manifolds before having them flow tested.
Prove your ffim design on a flow bench, sell it, and become an asset to the community.
-Charles
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Your manifold looks awesome. Your welds look good. I don't know how you weld your aluminum, but it looks good. I weld aluminum decently. I use a Miller dialarc tig welder with 2% ceriated tungsten though. I think you can use the same shielding gas though. I used to use 100% Argon then switched to 100% helium. It welds alot cleaner, but it is alittle harder to use. I also heak soak my aluminum before I weld that way your "puddle" stays the same size throughout the entire weld. Your really good though. We have a Milller Spoolamtic gun at work and it sucks to use. It dances the wire all over the place. We also have a Miller 22A with a Roughneck Mig that I like alot. I think I load that with helium or argon. Anyways sorry ramble. Looks awesome!!
supra_supra said:
Thanks for the kind words bud! Its really nice to hear from someone who actually understands the kind of trouble involved with doing something like this. Most guys have no idea, and are very quick to talk it down. Before the spool gun I just had a Miller Econo-tig, its since took a dump and is gone. I can tig fairly well, but the spool gun makes quick work of it, (if you are good at it) Anyways, thanks again!:icon_bigg