I would stick with aluminum and go with either 3 or 4.5mm thick. That way you can drill and tap the coil mounting hole.
morganson's COP S-Type setup
- Thread starter morganson
- Start date
It's 21 7/8".
Grim- it sounds as though you're saying that the DG coils are being limited on output due to the ignitor?
I'm really not that good at electricity in general. Once you're finished with the measurements, it would be awesome if you'd break down all the info on the three different coils, and give a side by side comparison, along with a short description of the parameters, as well as desireable vs. undesireable characteristics, for us noobs. That way, we can see a clear cut synopisis on what the best option is. Also, i understand that you are exploring the possibility of doing away with the ignitor altogether. It would be great if you could expand your explanation of what the possible alternative might be.
And thanks.
Grim- it sounds as though you're saying that the DG coils are being limited on output due to the ignitor?
I'm really not that good at electricity in general. Once you're finished with the measurements, it would be awesome if you'd break down all the info on the three different coils, and give a side by side comparison, along with a short description of the parameters, as well as desireable vs. undesireable characteristics, for us noobs. That way, we can see a clear cut synopisis on what the best option is. Also, i understand that you are exploring the possibility of doing away with the ignitor altogether. It would be great if you could expand your explanation of what the possible alternative might be.
And thanks.
I just figured a 2x2 sheet of material, and getting 7 coil holders from that sheet. With material and plasma time, and since I do this in the garage in my spare time Im seeing cost out the door at like 19.00 each from 1/8 material. Since its a hobby!, I can do singles or batches. Not sure what the best shipping method would be, priority mail in a tube as suggested, or something flat.
If youd like I can post some work, or even cut one out and send to someone for testing.
If youd like I can post some work, or even cut one out and send to someone for testing.
^ No Problem. Im going to start another thread in the next few days that will cover all of this and what I have found about the ignitor and all its signals. Clever little device!
in the mean time, the ignitor current limits to 7.2-7.6 amps (limit of mV range (X) of waveform i saved) Call it 7.5 amps. The ford coils do not reach this current at any rpm over 1,000rpm or so. They should always be close to this charge level but will rarely hit it. So there output might be limited. I do not have any way to analyze the secondary side so actual output of the coil in KV/mJ is still unknown.
I've seen a few graphs of the dg508 coils needing only 5 amps or so for a full charge. Its very likely the slight undercharge is still producing an effective spark output. Especially when compared to stock 25 year old coils. Have yet to see any OEM application that push the coils to their max. The lower charge should help them run cooler too.
These could be run in parallel to reduce the charge time. Nothing I can really think of to increase the current limit though.
make sure you guys thank supraguy@aol, these are his coils i have been testing on..
in the mean time, the ignitor current limits to 7.2-7.6 amps (limit of mV range (X) of waveform i saved) Call it 7.5 amps. The ford coils do not reach this current at any rpm over 1,000rpm or so. They should always be close to this charge level but will rarely hit it. So there output might be limited. I do not have any way to analyze the secondary side so actual output of the coil in KV/mJ is still unknown.
I've seen a few graphs of the dg508 coils needing only 5 amps or so for a full charge. Its very likely the slight undercharge is still producing an effective spark output. Especially when compared to stock 25 year old coils. Have yet to see any OEM application that push the coils to their max. The lower charge should help them run cooler too.
These could be run in parallel to reduce the charge time. Nothing I can really think of to increase the current limit though.
make sure you guys thank supraguy@aol, these are his coils i have been testing on..
grimreaper;1981962 said:
Thanks for the great feed back, I look forward to any further information you provide, I am currently running this setup with 12psi boost pressure on my car with the standard ct26, the car regularly sees 6000rpm. I have just recently pull out my stock Ngk plugs and inspected them using the Ngk chart as a comparsion, the plugs appear to be burning perfectly with no signs of miss fire or and sign of the plug being overheated. The car runs clean and pulls hard all the way to red line, I have just fitted a new set of bosch platinum plugs so I will watch these and see how they perform. Also you mention running them in parallel rather than series, when talking with morganson in the early stages he said he tried parallel at the start and the car would not run.
i may have missed something but im gonna throw this out there... why cant these be wired in parallel instead of series.
IE each coil get its own power and the ground for coils one and six be Y'd to both coils exc exc
IE each coil get its own power and the ground for coils one and six be Y'd to both coils exc exc
hmmm thats odd. The total current will not exceed 7.5 amps. Technically, if the coils are matched or closely resemble each other electrically, each one will consume 1/2 the 7.5 amps. exactly how the injectors are wired on the stock 7m.
might be the difference between the coils that caused one to draw more current.
If there wasnt current limiting, it would fry the ignitor by doubling the current draw. In our setup it just cuts down the charge time, or should. might be something in the ignitor that monitors for a short circuit too. Id guess the charge time being cut in half to be around 2-2.1ms Looks like i might need to sacrifice an ignitor to test..
might be the difference between the coils that caused one to draw more current.
If there wasnt current limiting, it would fry the ignitor by doubling the current draw. In our setup it just cuts down the charge time, or should. might be something in the ignitor that monitors for a short circuit too. Id guess the charge time being cut in half to be around 2-2.1ms Looks like i might need to sacrifice an ignitor to test..
I will step in on this one. If you wire them in parallel there is a feedback loop through all the coils on the 12v. The kv signal will fire all the coils at ons and you will not be able to start. The current wiring solution was the only setup that worked short of using diodes to gate the harness. In short if you string in parallel you have continuity on all pins to all coils at any time.
Why wouldnt this occur with them wired in series, 12v is still shared across all the coils and the injectors on this leg of the power circuit.
I can't answer that question. I built a harness in parallel it didn't work, built a harness based on the dsm harness and it worked. I don't have the tools to tell you why it worked where the other didn't. The answer lies in the coils but I can't get the published information to find the answer.
I did, lol. Cant sleep when something goes unanswered!
Ran the ford coils with polarity hooked up both ways in parallel and in series. Only way it works is if the 12v+ is on the right pin and they are in series. Swapping polarities drastically reduced the charge time but missfired when free reved.
parallel works but very very poorly. Dwell significantly reduced, less than 1ms.
Which pins are you guys putting 12v/gnd to?
Ran the ford coils with polarity hooked up both ways in parallel and in series. Only way it works is if the 12v+ is on the right pin and they are in series. Swapping polarities drastically reduced the charge time but missfired when free reved.
parallel works but very very poorly. Dwell significantly reduced, less than 1ms.
Which pins are you guys putting 12v/gnd to?
So if i remember my math (Ohms Law) the ignitor is built with three series circuits. Each circuit running two coils. The return of the first series sets of the second series then the third. Parallel would cause too much voltage/amperage drop from the first fire to the last. Sounds like the ignitor is a pretty stout piece of hardware.
Sent from my LG Optimus G
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Close but the transistors that turn the coils on are in parallel. So it's only dealing with 7 ish amps at one time. There are three transistors in parallel.
Still one stout device. Under hood temps aren't even remotely friendly of electronics. The whole case is a heat sink
Still one stout device. Under hood temps aren't even remotely friendly of electronics. The whole case is a heat sink
Wow. Learn somethin everyday. Just amazes me sometimes when dealing with this car about the tech used from back then. Well i guess if you have the know how almost anything from the new era can be Franensteined into old tech. Keep us informed. I'm really wanting to do this when i start on my car again.
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Sent from my LG Optimus G