mk3's and rain

[JMofIRW]

after reading all this tire spinning, i am mighty worried.

My rear tires are bald, gotta change them. and with winter arriving fast, snow will be my worst nightmare!

 

[Poodles]

So I'm not crazy in thinking wider tires hydroplane easier...

On the subject of tires, and this goes for everyone, it doesn't matter how much power you have, how good your suspension is setup, or how good your brakes are, your tires are the ONLY thing that matters when it comes down to saving your life.

 

[honestabe]

This is exactly why I buy tires that have superior wet and dry performance, especially living here in Portland (where I hydroplaned in my Geo last night across a 30 foot mini lake).

 

[MA70witBoost]

yay, looks like we've turned this into a tire topic. Ok, I am in no way, shape, or form a tire expert. Then again I've been trying to keep myself informed seeing as the only thing touching the ground on the car are the tires. Seems that should be one of the best maintained parts on the car.

That being said, people have to understand the tires. As far as tire size is concerned there are three (3) numbers to look at... usually goes in terms of P225/50R16.

P Usually indicates a Tire for Passenger Cars. There are usually only two
variables here. a P or a LT (Light Trucks)
225 This indicates the width of the tire. The portion that is actually
touching the streets.
50 This would be the height of the sidewall in respects to the rest of the tire diameter. The lower the number, the lower profile tire you'll have.
R Is the speed Rating of the tire.
16 Is the tire diameter. Same as Rim Size.

Shit, imma have to cover this in multiple posts through-out the day if you guys dont beat me to it. Gotta hurry up for work. :icon_mad:

There is other important information on the side of the tires. What is important isn't really whats the Max inflation pressure on the tire. Thats what the tire will safely hold without rupturing under load. The inflation pressure that is important is what the damn car says. I dont get why people dont realize this. Each car has its own specs. I play with my tire pressures a bit. I slightly lower the front by like 3-5psi and increase the back by like 5 (this was on my 240SX, might have to drop the pressure a bit in the back on the supra) As a tire is over inflated, the center of the tire bulges out. Only the center is in contact with the road when the tire is over inflated. When underinflated, the center of the tire makes less contact. The outter edges sag and the center line of the tire lifts. If you deflate just right you can manage to get the sides dead even with the centerline of the tire equating in more traction. NO! I AM NOT SAYING TO DEFLATE YOUR TIRES! Run them at the factory 29psi all around. If you get bigger wheels and tires that are not the factory recommended P225/50R16's then you must call the manufacturer of the tire and find out what your supposed to inflate the tire at. Vehicle info may be required as this is vehicle specific.

Anyways, On the side of the tire there is also UTQG (Uniform Tire Quality Grade) Standars. I find this to be very important from a performance point of view. Treadwear here seems to make more of a difference than weather the tire supposedly has A or AA traction. I had a set of Falken Azenis on my S13 and altho the tire stated it had A traction, It performs 100 times better than any AA tire I've ever used. Then again it had 200 Treadwear. The lower the number the faster the wear. Then again most tires that wear faster provide more grip. Everyone for the most part uses 400 treadwear tires. I wont get into much detail on this but heres a good link for info on this.

http://www.tirerack.com/about/techcenter.jsp

Good tires make the car respond better to the drivers inputs. Suspension also helps alot with this. Then again the ultimate factor is the driver. A skilled driver can overcome most situations that they happen to find themselves in. As far as hydroplaning is concerned, you have to realize that not only does tire traction have a whole lot to do the drivers ability to recover from a hydroplane, but so does the vehicles weight. Think vehicle dynamics. Shit, think what happens when your sitting still at a light and you stomp on the gas pedal. The vehicles front lifts. Your removing weight from the front for a breif moment. You stomp on the brakes, the front dips. Weight is off the back and on the front (can help improve steering traction if proper braking is used). Sadly enough, It ultimatly boils down to knowing how to drive the car.

 

[svnmpwr]

315 nitto DR Don't like the rain.

 

[Nick M]

So I'm not crazy in thinking wider tires hydroplane easier...

Of course not. Who said they will? Is it easier to break water tension with something wide or thin?

P Usually indicates a Tire for Passenger Cars. There are usually only two
variables here. a P or a LT (Light Trucks)
225 This indicates the width of the tire. The portion that is actually
touching the streets.

No. That is the sidewall when the tire is inflated and mounted on a wheel, but not loaded.

B]50[/B] This would be the height of the sidewall in respects to the rest of the tire diameter. The lower the number, the lower profile tire you'll have.

Yep.

R Is the speed Rating of the tire.

No. R is or radial. Many tires no longer have the rating following the r designation, and incorpoprate into the load rating.

Anyways, On the side of the tire there is also UTQG (Uniform Tire Quality Grade) Standars.

Brand to brand that is meaningless. Each maker does their own test against their own tire base. Such as an R compound with no life expectancy. It gets the standard rating of 100. A tire with a 300 lasts 3 times as long as the base tire. That is all it means. Same with tracation and temp.

 

[BorHor]

Rain + supra = fun times :cry:

 

[Keros]

A car is what it is.

What I mean by that is if you have a Supra set up for stop light racing on drag radials, don't expect it to out handle a minivan on all season tires in the rain. It won't happen. An average off the shelf passenger vehicle is designed to handle decently well in all conditions. As soon as we go around fucking with that using coil-overs, drag radials, and weird camber settings, we're messing up that inherant design.

Any vehicle is only as good as its tires. If you put mud tires on a truck, expect it to suck in the snow and ice. It'll be awesome in its element, mud, but anywhere else... it'll only dissapoint.

While I appreciate Jdub and Wiisass and their intellectual debate about tire pressure's relation to hydroplaning points, it seems the common theme in this thread is people saying Supras suck in the rain. No, I disagree... Tire selection and driving technique need to be taken into account before such a conclusion is drawn.

If one's Supra is scary to drive in the rain, perhaps one should reconsider the rubber in the fender wells and the techniques being employed to get the car down the road. Rule #1 for driving in reduced traction conditions: Never, EVER, make any sudden moves. Change throttle and direction gradually, brake gradually... ect. Stomping the gas or mashing the brake, or yanking the steering wheel will only end in tears.

Seriously, if you're hitting boost putting 300hp to the ground that would normally barely hook up in 2nd on dry pavement... to expect an improvement in wet conditions is... rediculous.

I've no doubt my Supra would be scary in the rain if I didn't drive it well... but since it's just a sissy 3 liter inline 6 without boost, driving below the boost threshold, 3000rpm, is as safe as playing with an spent shotgun shell. I spent more on tires than most people paid for their car, I should hope it'll atleast keep up to a Dodge Caravan in the rain.

This thread should be retitled: Get better tires to drive in the rain.

 

[Kenny[NK]]

I don't have any trouble driving in the rain. I had the rear end break lose one time but that was my own fault, never lost control though .

.

I'm N/A but I was using almost bald Hankooks and was just fine.

 

[supradjza80]

I would agree that driving these cars in the rain is a piece of cake. This coming from someone who purchased their car with shitty kelly chargers, which i proceeded to burn off with automotive hooliganism. The next set of tires I got were used (40% tread left, 8 year old) Goodyear Eagle LS tires which absolutely suck compared to even a cheap ultimate performance tire like a kuhmo ecsta supra 712. Throughout both sets of tires the car was a DD that was driven no matter what the weather was rain or shine (no snow though). I have found the car to be extremely easy to drive and easy to find the limit with.

While I recommend everyone purchase the best tires they can afford I will tell you these cars are really easy to drive in the rain, even in a down pour if you use your brain. Obviously in the rain the limit is much lower which can be fun when you want it to be.

As for the shitty tire choices I have made - I plan on purchasing a new set of wheels, probably mk4 TT wheels for next year and decided against buying good tires for the last few months the car is used this season (which is ending so soon! :cry since I know i will be getting a different wheel/tire size next year.

 

[arizzle]

Arizzle, do you have your tires confused? MX's are awesome tires in the dry and decent in the wet. And I thought 712s were crap.

thats what i was told also that the 712's werent as good as the Mx's but yes ive had a few problems with the MX's then the 712's. i ran 712's on my 328is and it the rain they were great in the rain. it might be just that i got no weight in the back:naughty: all my weight is it the front. lol i dont have a spare or a sub there right now, that could also make a difference couldnt it?

but in the dry the MX are unbelievably great tires, its like glue.

 

[SuperAnt]

almost had an accident going to school.... it was raining and i was only going about 45mph downhill and a truck in front of me suddenly stopped (It was a good 5-8 car lengths in front of me). I hit the breaks, I didn't really hit it that hard but it started to skid and almost went 90 degrees but still sliding straight... try to countersteer to keep it straight then my front right tire hit the curb so that slowed me down and I was about an inch from hitting that truck.... was scarey and the same time kind of fun :icon_bigg but I try to drive slow on rainy days after that....

 

[SideWinderGX]

No. That is the sidewall when the tire is inflated and mounted on a wheel, but not loaded.

No. R is or radial. Many tires no longer have the rating following the r designation, and incorpoprate into the load rating.

:lol: I didn't even catch the 'R' comment he posted, I skimmed over it way too fast.

However I'm going to have to disagree with you on your comment about '225'. 225 has nothing to do with the sidewall, it is the portion of the tire touching the ground. '50' is the size of the sidewall.

 

[Island_Yota]

Im used to my VW Rabbit which weighs nothing and has 195/50/15's on it, had some close calls with standing water that I didn't see. My 83 Toyota 4x4 has with 35x13.5" tires, ive hydroplaned in it before and it pulled me onto the shoulder.

The Supra seems really good in the rain, ive only driven it once in heavy rain and hit lots of standing water at 60mph and it was perfectly fine, mine has the LSD, and 225/55/16 Bfg's. An open diff is easier to handle in wet/slippery conditions because only one wheel tends to slip. Theres wet leaves on my driveway which is pretty steep and paved, the back end tends to kick out a little bit.. would be pretty fun to drive it in the snow but I dont plan on it!

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Last I knew wider tires where easier to hydroplane...

I run Kumho SPT's and never have an issue in the wet. Get some good tires or stop driving like a tool...

Good example of how good my tires are is going down the highway and hitting a large puddle that would usually suck you in, I go straight through it like it's not even there...

Ditto with my SPT's. I run stock size. The tires the kumhos replaced were terrible, I could fishtail taking off moderately on wet pavement.

From what I've read on here, most accidents are on wet roads. Add RWD and poor tire traction, its a disaster waiting to happen. I'm very cautious about hitting the gas going around corners too. Did a nice little 180 accelerating in a corner with my '91 (with ok tires). Wasn't a wet road, wasn't even going fast, but it was early morning and there was a heavy frost. Once the back end started to go sideways, I had no traction whatsoever. Landed in the grass next to a fence. Pulled back on to the road, saw some folks in a mini-van watching me. I just drove off like I meant to do it..

 

[EOS]

There's a local intersection over in Webster Groves (i.e. St Louis County) where the tires on ANY car break lose. The intersection in question is at Elm Avenue and Old Watson road by the Webster Groves Walgreens. No matter what the car, and no matter the tires, they're going to spin. On all of the Supras I've owned, both 5.0 Mustangs I've owned, and the FD RX7 I owned, I could understand the tires breaking loose...but my mom's old Mercury Sable station wagon? Or my dad's Ram pickup? You've gotta be kidding me. And as for my lifted Ford Explorer...well...those break loose, too. It's a big problem, and Idunnohowmany people have complaied about this, yet the street department has yet to rectify the situation. Meanwhile, the cars going through this intersection slip, slide, and just generally go sideways. On one occasion, I went throught the intersection in my (VERY highly modified) 89 LX 5.0, and the car got so sideways that, for the most part, I was looking through the passenger side window to steer...This was definitely scary and a situation I'd REALLY prefer not to repeat...Although the look on the cop's face when I cleared his patrol car by 1-2 feet was absolutely priceless...:biglaugh:

Just my two cents...

Joe

 

[black89t]

the pouring rain in santa rosa ended with me fish tailing down the road at about 75-80mph. then once i lost it i was spinning around in the middle of 101 about 5 times. then smack into a gard rail. not fun. then i tore the fender off and drove 250 miles home with the worst boost leak ever. that was a bad day. the rain is dangerous. take caution! don't speed if anything go under the speed limit. my mint 89t.

 

[TrqMnstr]

If it's raining on your day off find a empty parking lot and find your skill level. Driving my supra in the rain was cake compared to my 510. No power steering gets you some good looking shoulders after a while:biglaugh:

 

[makaveli913]

Rained today. 1jz + rain = sticky situations. I was in a hurry to catch a light. stomped on the throttle. As soon as i hit boost, fish tail ! AAAWWWWW. I literally was going sideways across the freeway intersection. Luckily no one was to the side of me. Saw another mkiii later on. I tried to catch up but no use I got no traction under boost. Bye Bye white package 89. Later went to my favorite parking lot and did countless doughnuts and 8s. FUN!!! I dont know what ima do when it snows.

 

[JMofIRW]

Rained today. 1jz + rain = sticky situations. I was in a hurry to catch a light. stomped on the throttle. As soon as i hit boost, fish tail ! AAAWWWWW. I literally was going sideways across the freeway intersection. Luckily no one was to the side of me. Saw another mkiii later on. I tried to catch up but no use I got no traction under boost. Bye Bye white package 89. Later went to my favorite parking lot and did countless doughnuts and 8s. FUN!!! I dont know what ima do when it snows.

That avatar of your mk3 in the snow is so cool.

Sucks you spin around!