Managing/Controlling with the 57Trim CT

[theKnifeArtist]

I've always avoided getting my head into tuning hardware/software.
Well now its time to finally go there, so i'm getting educated.

Here's what I got.

Rebuilt 7M
CT-26 57 Trim
Walbro Pump
AFPR
2.5" IC setup w/FMIC
3" DDP, test pipe, RSR catback

So I'm looking to make some power at around 15-19psi.
I want to make this simple.
At first i was going to go for a piggyback system, like a MAP-ECU.
Did some more reading and now it looks like i might use a SAFC or something similar.

So basically I have to control fuel output, control boost, eliminate fuel cut, and monitor AFRs.

Would it be a bad idea to use a manual boost controller? Would it cause spikes? creeps?

Does the wideband sensor get spliced into any management system, or is the wideband just for monitoring safe a/f ratios?

How do you tune the SAFC? Dyno testing neccessary? What kind of adjustments are made? Is there a harness for the 7m ecm? A lot of splicing required?

What should I be looking for with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator?

How do I take care of fuel cut? Using the "drill out the plug and adjust the screw" method safe? Or will i have to get a Lexus AFM and not have that option.

So i'll need:
SAFC
Wideband
Lex AFM/550s (?)

There's 440s in the car now. Am I going to have to go for 550s?
Any other fuel controlling system recommendations?

Keepin' it simple
Thanks

 

[gaboonviper85]

youll def want a lex afm and 550s....the safc wont get rid of fuel cut and getting a fcd is crazy dumb!

 

[sethron71]

I've always avoided getting my head into tuning hardware/software.
Well now its time to finally go there, so i'm getting educated.

Here's what I got.

Rebuilt 7M
CT-26 57 Trim
Walbro Pump
AFPR
2.5" IC setup w/FMIC
3" DDP, test pipe, RSR catback

So I'm looking to make some power at around 15-19psi.
I want to make this simple.
At first i was going to go for a piggyback system, like a MAP-ECU.
Did some more reading and now it looks like i might use a SAFC or something similar.

So basically I have to control fuel output, control boost, eliminate fuel cut, and monitor AFRs.

Would it be a bad idea to use a manual boost controller? Would it cause spikes? creeps? Electronic is better for spool as the soleniod will remain closed to increase spring pressure and build boost fast as a manual boost control is just a ball and spring and can have spike issues but no bad at that PSI.

Does the wideband sensor get spliced into any management system, or is the wideband just for monitoring safe a/f ratios? With S-AFC II it does not tie in just is simply a monitoring device used for tuning.

How do you tune the SAFC? Dyno testing neccessary? What kind of adjustments are made? Is there a harness for the 7m ecm? A lot of splicing required? Dyno tuning is the best/safest. It can be done on the street but you don't get the repeatability you do on the dyno plus you need a second person to watch the AFR's and tune. They do make a harness but they are hard to find, really not that difficult to splice it in.

What should I be looking for with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
Depends on your total setup but base fuel pressure should be 35-38psi without vac line. This will also leave you will pulling up to -20 on the top end. You don't want to pull anymore then -20 on the S-AFC as timing starts to get real scued by the ECU.

How do I take care of fuel cut? Using the "drill out the plug and adjust the screw" method safe? Or will i have to get a Lexus AFM and not have that option. With the setup you are planning on you will not have issues. I have run as high as 23psi with meth injection and don't get fuel cut with a good tune so don't even mess with fuel cut defencer at this point. Roughly you can do up to 440rwhp with out issues.

So i'll need:
SAFC
Wideband
Lex AFM/550s (?)
Walbro 255
Adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator and lines to eliminate the J-tube

There's 440s in the car now. Am I going to have to go for 550s?
Any other fuel controlling system recommendations?

Keepin' it simple
Thanks

Here are a bunch of links to help you out:
http://rob.carlile.home.mchsi.com/lexus/lexus1.htm
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5485
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/91304/Supra/HKS_SAFR_MKIII.pdf

Hope this helps,
Seth

 

[williamb82]

screw piggy backs. get a ms2 and then buy whatever size injectors you want. for what youll spend on the safc2, lex afm, and countless time trying to tune it to get the most out of it. you could spend a lil more and grab a ms2 setup and be done with it.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

thanks for the answers and the links sethron!
i have a adjustable fuel press regulator and walbro 255 btw
no j-tube, i have braided fuel lines from the rail to somewhere under the car

i will read that whole afm/550 upgrade page as soon as the temp drops in this room, heh

any electronic boost controller recommendations? pricey?

william: what's an ms2? please elaborate

 

[isnms]

You definitely need a wideband. In my sig is a wiring diagram for the ZT-2.

If you decide to go piggyback, I have a worksheet in my sig that can assist you tuning using your wideband logs.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

i'm aware i need a wideband.
the ZT-2 seems a little too fancy for me.
trying to keep it simple.
i'll get a wideband o2 sensor with a wideband gauge.
simple.

the question seems to be..piggyback? or SAFC?..

 

[isnms]

SAFC is a piggyback.

Having a wideband gauge is nice and good for quick reference but when you're tuning WOT you want a log.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

aha..
so what would be the difference to a MAP-ECU?
interface?
simple piggyback and advanced piggyback?


As for wideband. So i need a wideband system to monitor and to log. Would something like the AEM Uego be right? I read it has analog output for datalogging.

 

[williamb82]

ms2= megasquirt standalone. version 2. i have the ms2 on the v3 board and love it.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

william: standalone seems a little excessive, no?

http://rob.carlile.home.mchsi.com/lexus/lexus1.htm

Seth

so i read this whole thing.
this seems like the simplest solution.
is this efficient?
seems like the tuning is just being "eyeballed"

tell me why i shouldn't just handle it this way
i can make it more efficient and get more power with a piggyback tune after all of this, right?


so ill need:

-Wideband Gauge/Logger
-Electronic Boost Controller
-Lex AFM
-550 Injectors
-and maybe SAFC

OR

-Wideband Gauge/Logger
-E-boost Controller
-550 Injectors
-MAFT-PRO or other advanced piggyback

 

[williamb82]

excessive? no. you drive a car with piggy backs vs a full standalone even with same turbo, injectors, boost level etc.. and the difference is night and day. its the difference of being able to properly tune or not. piggy backs are a hack job.

 

[sethron71]

excessive? no. you drive a car with piggy backs vs a full standalone even with same turbo, injectors, boost level etc.. and the difference is night and day. its the difference of being able to properly tune or not. piggy backs are a hack job.

I highly dissagree with this statement and actually take it as an insult. The OP made it clear he has no tuning experience so going to a standalone let alone MS which everything is custom is crazy! To tune the standalone properly you must have a very very indepth knowledge of how all the adjusts work and interact with each other. I can take a car in good condition, good compression, no boost leaks, ect... and tune it from a horrible tune to 11.8 flatline in an hour tops.

Both my Supra's have done over 400rwhp with lex/550's/S-afc's.

Don't get me wrong for the experienced, standalone is miles better but I daily mine at over 400rwhp and on meth injection on the stock ECU with the lex combo.

I still vote simplicity for someone just learning to tune and on stock ECU with fuel cut INPLACE you really have to be an idiot to blow the car up but with a stand alone and no fuel cut in place you can go wrong extremely fast.

So again yes standalone is superior but not for a novice tuner!

HTH,
Seth

 

[williamb82]

actually you dont have to know how to tune with ms2. the megalog viewer does a very good job for you as long as you have the afr table filled out the way you want it. only thing is maybe timing. but there are enough base maps for that that will have him up and running no probs and no pinging. i had never tuned a ms2 before, and once i figured out my ignition issue, which was shitty plugs i had it tuned in less then an hour and running 20psi with 12:1 afr's all the way across on a 57 trim ct26. and as i recall you can setup a fuel cut on the ms2 as well. i havent as i have 780's and a wideband and the afr's above my boost range are stupid rich on purpose in case of the wastegate getting stuck or something. i would notice before anything bad happened.

next time i make a datalog ill try to make a video to show how it works. it isnt 100% perfect but more then adequate to run the car hard. also viewing the changes it makes and the data from the datalog helps teach what to look at and what to change for the desired results.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

yeah i'm gonna go with sethron.
i understand william, but this is my daily driver, and im going to go simple on it

i would love to take the time to get educated on all it takes to tune, but it's not happening on this car.
Ok so, just bought a lex afm..
Just gotta find some injectors, wideband system, boost controller and SAFC

Any more suggestions on a wideband and e-boost controller?

 

[williamb82]

DO NOT get venom injectors! i dont care if they are free. dont use them. get rc's or pte's

 

[theKnifeArtist]

gotchya, no venum.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RC-P...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PTE-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

good finds?

how about using denso injectors?

how about using high impedence injectors? i read you have remove a resistor pack and it'll work the same? someone please explain this.

if i buy just the 550 injectors, all i need to retrofit them to the 7m is the connector right?

 

[sethron71]

I run the PTE's safe bet with either those or RC's I would personally buy new!

And William I know the MS2 as I have one! lol

But base setup and doing a AFR and ignition map for a tuning beginner will be a disaster!

Seth

 

[theKnifeArtist]

as for the boost controller, i'm thinking of getting an HKS EVC.
seems nice and simple and stock looking.
Any thought about it? or about buying an older style boost controller unit?

 

[rtrdpenguin]

I absolutely love my EVC II, no complaints! It holds boost perfectly and has all the settings you'd ever need. It doesn't have a fancy color screen or anything extra like some newer ones do but it's old.