K&N oil filter: your thoughts?

Nick M

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I have to point out though that the color of the oil has no bearing on it's health
My concern is not in terms of viscous, but contaminents. When it gets hot, the refinery additives work to burn the varnish, but I just don't like that dirty ass oil so for me, out it goes at 5.

I am starting to think that excessive oil changes harm the engine. Everybody knows the wear occurs at startup. (maybe not adjusters)And those that are dumping it in 1500-2500 miles are having twice as many dry starts as you should.

That is not to say at one time in my life, 18-25ish I wasted oil.
 

Stanzaspeed

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Mar 30, 2005
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that would be what jetjock is saying. I for one am sure glad i stumbled on this thread!

kinda makes me feel dumb reading some of this stuff as i deal with oils / tribology daily at work.

+1 for you jetjock, its the least i can do in return for enlightening me! :bowdown:
 

flubyux2

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ive always liked the Purolator PureOne filters. they are that sweet-ass metallic blue w/ the rainbow colored lettering and the mirrored sticker! it was the best alternative to the Fram units at VatoZone.

as far as im thought, the oil's ability to trap and suspend contaminants was reflected by its color. contaminants mainly being HC's, burned and unburned (Soot). oil that stays clean for a long period of time obviously isnt trapping the contaminants and they are being deposited elsehwere in the engine.

as long as the oil temperature doesnt exceed a certain temp (varying w/ diffrent oils), the HC chains wont break down and the oil wont evaporate or deteriorate.

do we have hard numbers relating to the breakdown/coking temps of oils; conventional and synthetic? also, how small of particulate matter will off-the-shelf filters remove? 15 microns? 10 microns? 8 microns? i do know that there are some particulates/metals that cant be filtered out because they are too small and can only be removed by draining the oil. this is the main reason behind changing the oil immediately after starting and warming a freshly built motor; filters wont remove all the debris.
 

7MGTEsup

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I had a Citroen XM si Turbo and changed my oil once a year which is 24000 miles car has 178000 miles on it and the engine is a s sweet as a nut. I do a minimum of 6000 miles on the oil in my sup if your anal about it change your filter every 3000 miles but leave the oil.
 

supra90turbo

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Well, that's the point of a submicronic depth filtration setup. It'll catch everything that "only draining the oil will"
It's definitely worth looking into at least, given the money we all put in to our engines...
 

7MGTEsup

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flubyux2 said:
how small of particulate matter will off-the-shelf filters remove? 15 microns? 10 microns? 8 microns? i do know that there are some particulates/metals that cant be filtered out because they are too small and can only be removed by draining the oil. this is the main reason behind changing the oil immediately after starting and warming a freshly built motor; filters wont remove all the debris.

Would draining the oil really be that effective?? Being as alot of oil is still clinging to your sump and other engine components with said metal in suspension. Wouldn't you need to flush the engine and remove the sump and clean it??
 

supra90turbo

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The problem is, that the US is basically the only country insane on changing the oil at 3,000mi or less... while the UK and elsewhere are going at least 15,000mi....
We're brainwashed, people. Understand it!
 

Nick M

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Down but not out said:
Would draining the oil really be that effective?? Being as alot of oil is still clinging to your sump and other engine components with said metal in suspension. Wouldn't you need to flush the engine and remove the sump and clean it??
The oil has detergent in it.
 

jetjock

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Jul 11, 2005
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Hey Nick, you remember these? P/N 90915-20004. Denso OEM made in Japan, unlike the current OEM Toyo filters made in Thailand by Purolator. Molded resin media depth filter. Man, these were nice filters. Rare as hen's teeth these days.
 

Nick M

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jetjock said:
Hey Nick, you remember these? P/N 90915-20004. Denso OEM made in Japan, unlike the current OEM Toyo filters made in Thailand by Purolator. Moded resin media depth filter. Man, these were nice filters. Rare as hen's teeth these days.
Yes. The two dealers I worked at would often have them, and would order them. But I have been places where they look at you like your Forrest Gump.
 

Figit090

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will filters clean the gunk out of the oil that accumulates after the ever-common BHG? If so....

what would be the best method to effectifvely clean out that gunk that comes from a BHG? could only one good filter be used or would it be ok or better to use a couple cheaper filters and change them several times within the first, say...500 miles, along with changing the oil to completely flush the engine?

then...

what type of oil would be best to clean the system of that gunk? that i believe has moisture in it?

can u guess my reason for asking?

---------EDIT!-------
I was reading some other threads and read about Auto-RX, jetjock said its good stuff... http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html

I'm just looking for a good method for cleaning the oil system of that gunk crap.
 
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flubyux2

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you never get all the oil out of your motor. but having 10% contaminated oil after an oil change is far better than 100% contaminated oil w/o an oil change.

i wouldnt worry about the fact that you cant get all the oil out... there really isnt much you can do except remove your oil filter, start the motor and flush it all out, Noob-SRT4 style. what ive done before is drain the oil, and then dump a quart of ATF down thru the oil gally and let it drain out the bottom, hopefully sweeping along any debris, old oil and (on this occasion) condensed water.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
That depth filtration OEM JDM Toyota filter is pretty interesting. (If I was still running a spin on disposable filter, I'd go that route now.)

But I belive that depth filtration on both your full flow and bypass filters are the way to go.
Canton makes spin on adapters that will fit the 7M. They use replacement filter elements that run about 15.00 each, but you only have to change them every 25k or so if your running synthetic oil, and you should have your oil analyzed at 10 to 15k, and see how it's doing. If it's in good shape, change your filter at 25k, and top off the oil.
If you run a true bypass depth filter like I do, you could do like JetJock suggests and run your oil pretty much forever if you use the right oil, and change your filters every 25k. (Just to be sure, have your oil tested every year if you want as well.)

Here is the facts.
Your spin on filters (Except for that depth type JJ posted, and possibly some of the new spun media filters) will stop most particles down to about 20 microns in size. Some are slightly better, but most are quite a bit worse only stopping particles down into the 40 micron range at best.

Wear is caused by particles larger than 10 microns according to agreed on sources. (There is some debate on this, but not at our level anyway :) )

A good bypass filter will trap particles down to 1 micron or better. A simple and very old design uses a roll of toilet paper compressed into a can that the oil is then pushed through. It comes out the other end very clean, and TP rolls are pretty cheap to replace. Paper when soaked with oil is actually very strong, so the likelyhood of the TP roll coming apart is slim too.

Some of the new designs use celulose (paper by another name) material in woven or wound up cords v/s layers of pleated paper like the TP roll. All the designs are very effective at trapping debris down into the 1 micron or better range, so the oil coming out of these bypass filters is super clean. Possibly cleaner than it was when you poured it out of your container new. (not kidding here.)

So, why don't new cars have these filters built into them? I don't know, but it'd imagine it would have to do with how long the engine runs with clean oil all the time. (Why buy a new car when your old one is running so well? You do the math>)

The location for the vapor canister makes a great spot to mount a bypass filter. If your running a ball bearing turbo, you could even have the oil run through the bypass filter first, then into the turbo since BB CHRA turbo's really don't like excess oil pressure and volume.
I just used the normally plugged port on the main galley to the rear of the main oil return fitting on the block. You could just use a simple T fitting between your turbo and your bypass filter, and use the stock oil cooler dump to return the super clean oil back to the pan. (That's where mine dumps.) I use a full flow cooler and thermostat.)

So, recap. Full flow, depth filter from Canton, blue canister with a AN10 going in, and AN10 going out, and replaceable Mecca filter inside of it that you change every 25k. (It filters ALL of the oil all of the time down to 8 microns.)
Green topped oil guard bypass filter in the vapor canister location, it filters some of the oil from the main galley, and then dumps it back into the pan. The maker estimates that about every 45 min of operation, 6 quarts of oil passes through the filter. So every hour I drive my car, most of the oil in my engine has passed through the bypass filter, and if I really want to clean my oil, I could take the car out for a long drive of 8 hours or so, and get it really clean...This filter I plan on changing every 25k depending on how the oil samples come back. (I only have a few thousand miles on the engine at this time, but have changed the oil from the group III 30 weight oil I used for the initial fill. I also changed the filters in both to get rid of the assembly lube and any huge debris that all new engines have laying around that you just can't get out of the engine any other way for some reason.)
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