See here for temp gauge calibration
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?47479-Temp-Gauge-Calibration&p=656172
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?47479-Temp-Gauge-Calibration&p=656172
How hot is considered overheating?
- Thread starter CyFi6
- Start date
te72;1863049 said:
This is why there are eletric fans that cycle by temperature and high side pressure. The temp switch closes at 220ish. To give you some idea when the coolant is getting warm and needs to drop.
That temp switch (the 234* one) makes for a great audible alarm. Very easy to connect a sonalert to it just behind the glove box. It'll also show how rarely a car with a stock cooling system in good condition gets that high when running.
Surprising they don't do that from the factory on cars like this, I don't always notice a gauge, but a buzzer on the other hand... Pretty sure there are only two times I can remember when my car has gotten that hot, but I got those things sorted out quickly after.jetjock;1864059 said:
Couldnt find anything on this cooling criteria, would be nice to know what the requirements are.
Not sure where exactly the readings can be taken from. Theres a whole lot of fuel rail/intake manifold/wiring on that side of the head that gets in the way. I did however temp it today at 237 at the thermostat housing. This was after about 20 mins cruising ~45-50mph, then on the highway for about 7 mins, then pulled off the highway and parked for a couple mins. Temp gauge rose from normal range to above half within 3-4 mins of driving on the highway at 65mph. After getting off the freeway the temp pretty much stayed at the 2 oclock position at which time I popped the hood and temped it at 237 degreesf (114 deg C for anyone outside merca). I have put that new stock radiator back in with a brand new OEM stat just to rule out anything aftermarket. Coolant mix is a 60/40 water/Zerex G05. Any ideas on what I can do? It has never gone into the red, but its not far from it.
BTW this is all with the AC on and it is about 105 degf outside right now. With the AC off I really don't have any issues.
IJ.;1862855 said:
Not sure where exactly the readings can be taken from. Theres a whole lot of fuel rail/intake manifold/wiring on that side of the head that gets in the way. I did however temp it today at 237 at the thermostat housing. This was after about 20 mins cruising ~45-50mph, then on the highway for about 7 mins, then pulled off the highway and parked for a couple mins. Temp gauge rose from normal range to above half within 3-4 mins of driving on the highway at 65mph. After getting off the freeway the temp pretty much stayed at the 2 oclock position at which time I popped the hood and temped it at 237 degreesf (114 deg C for anyone outside merca). I have put that new stock radiator back in with a brand new OEM stat just to rule out anything aftermarket. Coolant mix is a 60/40 water/Zerex G05. Any ideas on what I can do? It has never gone into the red, but its not far from it.
BTW this is all with the AC on and it is about 105 degf outside right now. With the AC off I really don't have any issues.
Have you checked your head pressures on the AC? Just to make sure the high side isn't crazy.
What rpm does your car idle? If its on the low side, bump it up a little to help fan speed and water pump flow.
Also, if you stick the plastic end of a screw driver or pry bar into the fan and add pressure does it slow down at all or even completely stop? If so I would change your clutch or add fluid.
Lastly for the hell of it try driving without the front bumper if your able, however that would be highway driving air flow.
Maybe try blocking off the coolant feed to the turbo with some hose vise grips? And do you still have the grommet on the back of the bay? Taking that off and putting 2 washers under the hood brackets was what saved my 1jz from blowing up back in '08
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What rpm does your car idle? If its on the low side, bump it up a little to help fan speed and water pump flow.
Also, if you stick the plastic end of a screw driver or pry bar into the fan and add pressure does it slow down at all or even completely stop? If so I would change your clutch or add fluid.
Lastly for the hell of it try driving without the front bumper if your able, however that would be highway driving air flow.
Maybe try blocking off the coolant feed to the turbo with some hose vise grips? And do you still have the grommet on the back of the bay? Taking that off and putting 2 washers under the hood brackets was what saved my 1jz from blowing up back in '08
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
stevenr816;1876550 said:
This sounds like a recipe for a fried turbo.
I'd definitely check and see if the clutch on the fan is working properly. Rather than potentially damaging the blades or hurting yourself, it would probably be better to get the car warm, shut it off, and see how easily the fan free spins by hand immediately after shutting the engine off. The clutch should grab it fairly well and stop it from spinning much when everything's warm. You could also have a buddy turn the car off while you look under the hood and see how quickly it slows down when the engine is stopped.
Make sure all the electric fans are coming on when the A/C is on as well, both beside the mechanical fan and the one in front of the condenser.
stevenr816;1876550 said:
Bad idea since it's the t-stat bypass. It's why you loop the lines if you go to a non watercooled turbo.
stevenr816;1876550 said:
Base of the windshield is a high pressure zone. You hurt your cooling doing that at highway speeds (not to mention the sides of the hood aren't sealed anyway)
Fan clutch is an almost brand new OEM unit, it is working 100%, can hear it pulling a large amount of air. Not to mention that this thing gets hot on the highway. The AC is working well steven when I charged it the high side was staying below 250. The 2 electric radiator fans turn on when high pressure gets around 275psi on the high side and they do not come on often. AC works well and blows real cold, its just that the engine runs hot. The turbo coolant has been bypassed for a while now. No coolant leaks at all either. The only thing I can think to be causing the problem is my aftermarket intercooler core blocking airflow, but it would be very difficult to swap everything back to stock just to see if that is the cause. Honestly I really dont know if there is actually anything wrong either, if you go back to post 38 you can see that there's a number of scenarios where its is "normal" to go into the red zone on the temperature gauge.
The larger aftermarket IC core in my mind would seem better only based off of the amount of fin surface damage that are usually on stock IC's. As well as they usually have bigger spacing of the fins.CyFi6;1876577 said:
radiod;1876561 said:
False. Almost 99% of turbo companies, rebuild companies, performance shops take it off. Which is why the majority of all new turbo technology excluding ball bearing are dry CHRAs. Ball bearings don't have enough oil flow going to dissipate heat.
Every water cooled turbo I've had has been bypassed.
jetjock;1876578 said:
Multiple shops that I've worked at that's what they do. It's a very fast diag tool instead of basing it off of fan sound or how loose it is.
I've had fans that are completely loose when there off but are solid when IRS hot.
Never said it was the right thing to do, just a tip to help diag since this issue has been going on this whole AZ summer for him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
stevenr816;1876603 said:
Biggest crock of crap I've ever heard. Water cooling significantly lengthens the lifespan of a turbo, that's why it was done in the first place. Hell, good luck getting your warranty covered on a water cooled turbo rebuild...
Yea, we all know the auto repair racket is filled with uneducated morons but no tech worthy of the name would do such a thing when there are so many better ways. Just tell us what shops you've worked/work at so people can avoid them/it like the plague...
jetjock;1876612 said:
You obviously have brought so much info to the thread.
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm going to side with JJ for sure. Why are you bypassing it? What could you possibly gain by not running water to a water-cooled turbo? Might want to read this paper, released by Garrett: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbo...iles/Garrett_White_Paper_01_Water_Cooling.pdf
Water-cooling is there to help. I cant think of a good, legitimate reason to not have it water cooled. It's optional on the EFR turbos, but I'm fairly certain that's because BorgWarner designs their turbos to be predominantly oil cooled anyways. They dont even offer ball bearing CHRAs on the AirWerks line IIRC, and I dont think they're water cooled either. Garrett CHRAs tend to be designed around being watercooled though, as do many other companies.
Water-cooling is there to help. I cant think of a good, legitimate reason to not have it water cooled. It's optional on the EFR turbos, but I'm fairly certain that's because BorgWarner designs their turbos to be predominantly oil cooled anyways. They dont even offer ball bearing CHRAs on the AirWerks line IIRC, and I dont think they're water cooled either. Garrett CHRAs tend to be designed around being watercooled though, as do many other companies.
That was definitely a good read O.Z. That completely changed my mind on water-cooled turbos. I always thought that oil-cooled was the way to go. I was definitely wrong. Even though whether or not the turbo is cooled by water depends on the manufacturer.
http://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...ally-tests-oil-vs-water-cooled-turbos-966424/
I'd link just the picture, but I doubt their forums would like that.
I'd link just the picture, but I doubt their forums would like that.
I can only assume that Borg doesnt include it on their AirWerks turbos because they might keep more of the oil in the CHRA to absorb the heat the best it can while keeping costs down. Tons of people have had great success with it, so the questions remain of "are they really that good?" (yes, likely, turbos have come a long way since the days of the Rajay) and "are more people taking better care of their turbos by turbo-timing and using oil coolers? (probably also yes).
I'm actually going to school for this stuff, though it is still a long way off. At first, I wanted to be the engineer to keep I6s alive in new vehicles, but turbos are my real calling!
I'm actually going to school for this stuff, though it is still a long way off. At first, I wanted to be the engineer to keep I6s alive in new vehicles, but turbos are my real calling!