Since you like to Ninja edit (as you have before in this thread)...I'm going to start quoting you:
turbojuiced;1017145 said:
Well thats not all what my argument was about. My argument also included data from dr. haas and SAE. It makes no sense to leave oil in there for that long even Dr. Haas eludes this. He along with SAE explains that the oil itself does not lose its integrity meaning the lubrication portion. But lubrication isnt the only thing we use oil for. Oil also helps keep our engines clean and cool. What he did say was that if there was a way to add a can of additives along with extracting the impurities out of the existing oil then yes you pretty much dont ever have to change your oil.
The SAE explains that the additives essentially deteriorate via pressure which happens right when you start up the engine but they did elude what Haas said which is that oils these days are good forever but not the additives. The oil loses the additives over time which is actually why we change our oil. Leaving your oil in for prolonged periods of time granted you will still get the lubrication, but all the additives which are very important to your engine is vital.
And you dont necassarily have to tear apart a complete engine to know whethor your oil maintenance schedule is working or not. You can tell just by removing the valve cover and taking the head off.
Never had to replace an engine for changing my oil too frequently. And neither has anyone else. Find me someone whose engine pooped for changing their oil too frequently and I am all ears.
I would really like to see a data sheet of one of your oil tests. And include how many miles you used it for. I woudl really appreciate it.
You also like to pull statements out of what Dr Haas says (as well as others) to fit your paradigm, here's what your referring to in context:
Dr Haas said:
Synthetic oils are a whole different story. There is no VI improver added so there is nothing to wear out. The actual oil molecules never wear out. You could almost use the same oil forever. The problem is that there are other additives and they do get used up. I suppose if there was a good way to keep oil clean you could just add a can of additives every 6 months and just change the filter, never changing the oil.
A couple key statements on synthetic oil here: "no VI improver added"..."actual oil molecules never wear out"..."add a can of additives every 6 months and just change the filter, never changing the oil." Note the time frame..."every 6 months" and FYI there are bottles of additives available...Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment (VSOT) comes to mind. This in no way supports your position for changing the oil every 1000 miles as you stated previously in this thread. It takes months and mileage exceeding 10,000 for additives in a syn oil to be used up. An oil's TBN will decrease to the point where it's no longer effective neutralizing the acids produced as a byproduct of combustion well before the anti-wear, antifoam, corrosion inhibitors, antioxidants, detergents, and dispersants do. Here's an explanation of each additive:
Oil Additives
Here is what the SAE really said:
SAE said:
Oil addiitives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time ie longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!
Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the concern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade.
Key statements here: "Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active"..."additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000kms or 640 hours of usage"..."formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity." Again, note the time frames here: "2 years, 40,000kms or 640 hours of usage". The problem with what you are trying to promote is the time frame...you stated earlier:
turbojuiced;993228 said:
^Dont worry I do the same thing. I change my oil frequently on rebuilt engines. Its just a safe habbit. I usually do it after the first drive, then at 100, 500, 1000, then 2000 and repeat every 1000miles if its a forced induction engine if its NA I do it every 2-3000miles.
turbojuiced;993240 said:
I would say that depends on the application. I personally wouldnt trust any oil even rp for 5000miles in my boosted cars especially with aftermarket turbo setups and etc etc. On my evo I dont allow it to go over 1500miles at most and I even use rp.
turbojuiced;993427 said:
And on a boosted car 5000miles is a long time to use oil especially when boosting alot you are more prone to getting blow by which causes the oil to lose its charactaristics. So like I said its based on a case by case scenario. Oil wont hold the same charactaristics as it did at 1000miles than at 5000miles on a boosted car. Thats pretty obvious.
turbojuiced;993472 said:
Jdub, I understand you have a very informative link about lubricants and additives. However, I am going to stand by my statement and you can keep arguing with me till you are black and blue I really dont care because I know I am right and I have not exclaimed anything here that is factually wrong.
I did say oil can last longer than what I change it out at, thats just WHAT I DO PERSONALLY. There is nothing wrong with waiting 5000miles until doing an oil change if you want to do that then fine all I am saying is it is indeed FACTUALLY safer to change your oil more frequently. If you are going to argue that fact then I am done here.
(You followed this one with a personal attack...supporting your position by alluding I have something against you)
turbojuiced;993472 said:
On a side note why do you feel the need to flame people? Is it because you have the ability to ban people so you can?
The problem with your argument is there is nothing to back it up, yet you cling to: "Its just a safe habit"... "I personally wouldn't trust any oil even rp for 5000miles in my boosted cars"..."on a boosted car 5000miles is a long time to use oil"..."I really dont care because I know I am right"..."it is indeed FACTUALLY safer to change your oil more frequently". The problem with these statements is there is nothing based on scientific studies, oil analysis, bearing inspection, etc...it just your opinion based on your habit and what you *think* is best...there are no facts here, yet you try to make it like there are. Then you resorted to the "personal attack" tactic to make it seem like your were somehow being picked on...I called you on it before, and I still do.
One last thing:
turbojuiced;1017145 said:
And you dont necassarily have to tear apart a complete engine to know whethor your oil maintenance schedule is working or not. You can tell just by removing the valve cover and taking the head off.
Never had to replace an engine for changing my oil too frequently. And neither has anyone else. Find me someone whose engine pooped for changing their oil too frequently and I am all ears.
Now you're telling me that you can look at a head and tell if the oil is doing it's job? So, the condition of the bearings does not mean anything? It's only one of oil's primary functions in the engine. This is about as accurate as this statement from another thread:
turbojuiced;1016200 said:
Ive read through most of these posts and I havent seen anyone say anything about you running solid buckets and needing shims? Now in my experience when changing from hydraulic buckets to solids you need shims to account for the valve lash.
Hydraulic buckets in a 7M?!?! Kinda makes me wonder if you even own a Supra. It's statements like this (and ignoring bearing wear) that illustrate you really don't know what you're talking about. Changing your oil is not only not good for your engine, it's a complete waste of $$$ and a valuable resource.
Concerning analysis...you'll have to wait till I get the miles before I do another one on this motor. That is, if it's still in the car in a few months since I doing a radical reconfigure of the entire engine
You can look at a few hundred here:
Oil Analysis Reports
You have to keep in mind these analysis' are on various engines and oils, but note the drain intervals...some are quite large mileage wise...some went too long
This page has them all...the used oil analysis section is what's of interest. Do me a favor Juiced, don't "cherry pick" the reports that seem to support your contention...Opinions in this forum are like opinions here...keep it to the facts shown in the report. I really don't want to do another long, involved post proving you wrong again.
