how do u know if the rings are seated

[turbojuiced]

I did not say that...if you are going to quote me, I expect accuracy. Please do not use my name again to support what you are doing.
Just for the record, I am absolutely, completely opposed to frequent oil changes...especially at the intervals you do. This applies to just about any car out there, including your Evo...if you have the kind of blow-by that would require this frequent of a change, you've got a lot bigger problems




JJ is correct...SAE data has shown frequent oil changes increase wear on a motor.

He is also correct in his accessment of your reasoning used to support what you are doing. I got over using my "feelings" a long time ago. You may "love" clean oil and the way it makes you "feel good", but the last thing it does is "money well spent". Until you come up with technical data to support what you do, it will fall on deaf ears...at least on this forum.

Well jdub it was accuracy. Because even your own link doesnt support what you just said. I know cause I read the entire thing. Going over it twice as we speak. And no I dont have much blow by but you will get some due to boost. This is common knowledge. And rings arent impervious to blow by especially in boosted cars so I am sure you are getting amounts of blow by as well. Is it enough to cause major problems obviously not but you are seeing it which causes oils to lose its charactaristics and additives. The oil itself remains thats why we are able to recycle it its the additives that go away.

The technical data I use to support is common sense and of course your own link:naughty:. The newer the oil is the better it is. Thats a simple plain fact jdub. Even your own link concludes that the longer the oil is used the thicker it becomes which not only looses its additives but also it becomes harder for cooling due to the loss of pressurization. Also Dr. Haas did say that we could prolly never change out our oil if we had a can of additives we could pour in. However, we dont and we would need the technology to recycle the oil which we dont personally, the recyclers do, which is why you still need to change it and change it more frequently in boosted cars.

He did say that auto companies are coming out with brochures now that say you dont have to change your oil until 7500miles and even sometimes a entire year. But even Dr. Haas replies to this that in most cases you should change your oil at least during the spring or in 5000 miles which ever comes first. And this was referring to normal road driving conditions.

So no according to your link that does not substantiate any conclusive data to support your theory. Now if you have any other link that would support I would be happy to read it. thanks buddy:icon_bigg

Dr Haas didn't make this assesment the SAE did. IIRC the Dr. hasn't proven this data as being false yet...

Ok as I just exclaimed to jdub please give me this link. Thanks

Ok I just read this entire link as well which is on the SAE and specifically oil and the maintainence issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#American_Petroleum_Institute

And even here it says nothing about what some of you have been exclaiming. Now it does indeed say that oil is obviously getting better and some oils can be left in for 15000miles at a time but nowhere does it say the more you change your oil the worse it is for an engine. Its just not common sense is all I am saying. And I am sure that there is nothing factually wrong with it. I guess in your eyes its a cost effective issue but it would be more cost effective if we didnt use turbos or mod a car at all so like I said to each their own.

Also there are other related links on the bottom which have oil change guide, steps to change oil, and many more. And in each oil change link it recommends regular oil change maintenance and to refer to owners manual for oil change intervals.

 

[suprahero]

it would be more cost effective if we didnt use turbos or mod a car at all .

I'm going to pretend that I never read that sentence. A life without a turbo or mods?............Kill me now!!!!!!!!

 

[turbojuiced]

I'm going to pretend that I never read that sentence. A life without a turbo or mods?............Kill me now!!!!!!!!

HAHA well fortunately alot of people dont care about money or they do and they enjoy going fast more than saving a buck lol. But thankfully people do enjoy modding cars like I do and its not all about saving a buck :naughty:

 

[jdub]

Well jdub it was accuracy. Because even your own link doesnt support what you just said. I know cause I read the entire thing. Going over it twice as we speak. And no I dont have much blow by but you will get some due to boost. This is common knowledge. And rings arent impervious to blow by especially in boosted cars so I am sure you are getting amounts of blow by as well. Is it enough to cause major problems obviously not but you are seeing it which causes oils to lose its charactaristics and additives. The oil itself remains thats why we are able to recycle it its the additives that go away.

The technical data I use to support is common sense and of course your own link:naughty:. The newer the oil is the better it is. Thats a simple plain fact jdub. Even your own link concludes that the longer the oil is used the thicker it becomes which not only looses its additives but also it becomes harder for cooling due to the loss of pressurization. Also Dr. Haas did say that we could prolly never change out our oil if we had a can of additives we could pour in. However, we dont and we would need the technology to recycle the oil which we dont personally the recyclers do which is why you still need to change it and change it more frequently in boosted cars.

He did say that auto companies are coming out with brochures now that say you dont have to change you oil until 7500miles and even sometimes a entire year. But even Dr. Haas replies to this that in most cases you should change yor oil at least during the spring or in 5000 miles which ever comes first. And this was referring to normal road driving conditions.

So no according to your link that does not substantiate any conclusive data to support your theory. Now if you have any other link that would support I would be happy to read it. thanks buddy:icon_bigg

Bull Shit...this is what you originally posted:

Just like jdub said it may not be needed but there isnt anything wrong with it.

I NEVER said that and you are trying to make it sound like I did...I said it was a waste and I NEVER said there isn't anything wrong with it. You are throwing up a smoke screen here to cover your tracks and:

#1 - As with most people with limited knowledge on a subject, you cherry pick the parts you want to hear and support the rest with "common sense". How about this quote from the same link:

I have seen several car owner manuals that are now stating that oils do not need to be changed but every 7,500 miles or more. The same manual also states OR every 12 months, whichever occurs first. My feeling is that you can probably go 5,000 miles on the average (in a sports car) but you must change your oil in the spring time at a minimum, particularly up north. Oils form waxes in icy cold weather. There is a permanent thickening of the oil.

Once again, you misquoted Dr Haas just like you did me...by leaving out "(in a sports car)", you know like the ones we own. And he did not mention "normal" vs "severe" driving conditions.

And here's a quote from the Wikipedia link you posted:

A modern typical application would be Honda Motor's use of 5w-20 oil viscosity for 10,000 miles without excess wear or deposits while offering the maximum mpg. Most other manufacturers use 20 weight oils as well. The latest API "SM" spec offers a substantially better product that proceeding specifications.

I suppose the 7M, 1J and 2J motors are not "modern"...just like the motor in your Evo? I guess the SM specification is not really a better oil additive and longevity wise?

#2 - You think that link is the sole source of my knowledge...get real. I also read SAE papers on this subject, plus the data sheets the companies put out. If you want to read the SAE papers, go here:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/index

BTW - you'll have to buy a membership to read them

#3 - Are you a liberal and/or democrat? Reason I ask, you sure like to take things you pull out of the air as "fact", you have no proof to support "your theory", you misquote and misrepresent to support your "facts" and somehow you think I should have to "prove" my knowledge on the subject. Not going to bite

You came in here spouting off all your "knowledge" on oil...it's up to you to prove YOUR contention. I have many, many times over. Provide some facts as to why changing your oil every 1000 miles is a good thing and leave the "feel good" and "common sense" crap out.

You do what you want (like I said)...it is your car and you can drive it off a cliff with all your Evo buddies following like lemmings.
No sweat off my back.

 

[starscream5000]

Ok as I just exclaimed to jdub please give me this link. Thanks

I'll do more than that, I'll post it up on here for you .

"Title: Extended Oil Drain Intervals - Conservation of Resources Or Reduction of Engine Life (Part Ii)"
After reading that you may never change your oil again at even 10,000 miles!

There are millions of miles of oil analysis that not only prove short duration changes increase wear but also result in a lack of additive activation in the motor. If you own a Jiffy Lube then I would expect you to subscribe to the "3,000 mile Mentality" myth.

Oil addiitives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time ie longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!

Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the conern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade.

If you doubt the 10K oil change intervals perform an oil sample at 1,000 miles. Most cars with a fresh sump of oil will peak out at the 1,000 mile mark. After that the wear metals may increase by only 5-10% over the course of 10,000 miles! Nearly 90% of the engine wear occurs in the first 1,000 miles on an oil change! Increasing oil change frequency increases the duration your engine spends in the activation period of the additives and greatly increases the damage in your motor from failing to follow the guidlelines of the manufacturer.

Just looking at iron in a VW motor typical readings are around 20-35ppm after 15,000 miles of use maximum on a motor that has more than 60,000 miles. The oil filter is not capable of filtering this much metal simply because the wear metals are so small they can't be filtered from the oil. Also because there is so little wear metal you do not get wear as a result of the metal being suspended in the oil.

Dispersants require time to bond to the wear metals and byproducts in your engine oil. As byproducts such as soot (gasoline or diesel make soot just different sizes which discolor the oil) are created additives coat them and prevent them from clumping and becoming larger. Typical soot particles in diesel oil are in the nanometer range in terms of size 10 times smaller than what any bypass filter can even capture which is rated at 2 microns absolute. Your oil filter in your motor is rated at capturing particles in the 7 micron range with only a 75% first pass rating...Bottom line is your car would last forever if you change the oil every 20,000 miles and NEVER replace the oil filter simply because your motor is not making enough metal or by-products to ever get captured! Oils especially those for diesels can handle upwards of 8% soot, that my friend is a LOT of soot! to put that in perspective a typical motor after 25,000 miles without an oil change or filter change will only have 1% soot in the oil. This oil will appear tar black yet the oil still has 80% of its rated levels of protection remaining!

Most oils are limited by time in the sump rather than miles due to sulfur in the fuel. Most gasoline motors can safely go 2 years between changes when using quality oils formulated for extended drains such as Mobil 1 0w40 and Truck and SUV 5w40. These oils along with those sold as VW 506.01 have very high TBN ratings that neutralize acid formation for upwards of two years (1 year in diesels due to higher sulfur content wich causes the acids).

Heres the deal, forget the myths about frequent oil changes and basing your perceptions on how the oil looks. The best advice is use a quality oil and drain it at the specified interval. The worst thing you can do to a modern car is overmaintain it, yes this is possible due to the very specific regimine that VW engineers figured out to keep your car running at peak performance with maximum durability.

 

[turbojuiced]

Bull Shit...this is what you originally posted:


I NEVER said that and you are trying to make it sound like I did...I said it was a waste and I NEVER said there isn't anything wrong with it. You are throwing up a smoke screen here to cover your tracks and:

#1 - As with most people with limited knowledge on a subject, you cherry pick the parts you want to hear and support the rest with "common sense". How about this quote from the same link:



Once again, you misquoted Dr Haas just like you did me...by leaving out "(in a sports car)", you know like the ones we own. And he did not mention "normal" vs "severe" driving conditions.

#2 - You think that link is the sole source of my knowledge...get real. I also read SAE papers on this subject, plus the data sheets the companies put out. If you want to read the SAE papers, go here:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/index

BTW - you'll have to buy a membership to read them

#3 - Are you a liberal and/or democrat? Reason I ask, you sure like to take things you pull out of the air as "fact", you have no proof to support "your theory", you misquote and misrepresent to support your "facts" and somehow you think I should have to "prove" my knowledge on the subject. Not going to bite

You came in here spouting off all your "knowledge" on oil...it's up to you to prove YOUR contention. I have many, many times over. You do what you want (like I said)...it is your car and you can drive it off a cliff with all your Evo buddies following like lemmings. No sweat off my back.

ok nvm i got the link thanks starscream

 

[starscream5000]

You do have to have a membership to view these, but I took the liberties of showing you one, free of charge .

 

[jdub]

LOL...you really should read what you post :biglaugh:
(it's soooo high school)

It's no secret...buy the membership slick, anyone can.

Barring that...read what Chris just posted

 

[starscream5000]

ok nvm i got the link thanks starscream

That was one hell of a ninja edit if I've ever seen one

 

[jdub]

Yeah it was...par for the course for this guy. I'm going to go into the data base and see if I can undelete it
BTW - He logged out shortly after the ninja edit...LOL!

And thanks for the SAE post...I was going to make him buy a membership!

 

[starscream5000]

NP, time to head to the house fellas, happy motoring!

Don't get mad because of a few words on a computer, it's just the internets

 

[jdub]

Nah...just an irritation.
Everyone who's been on SM for a while knows who has good knowledge vs the BS

Drive careful...it's a jungle out there!

 

[turbojuiced]

Ok so from the link it says 90% of wear and tear occur n the first 1000miles of an oil change. Now to me that doesnt make sense. Because the additives like they just exclaimed are activated by heat and pressure not time. And when you have start up the additives are activated. Another interesting thing is also 90% of wear and tear occurs during start up. So if you have left your oil in for a long period of time say 10,000 miles then it is most likely very thick and on start up in some conditions if its too thick it wont even start and if it does its worse due to the fact that oil pressure is dropped which then decreases lubrication and cooling.

To me the fact remains that as long as you do the normal scheduled oil changes I have seen engines last very long and in good operating shape. I havent seen many or much proof of doing oil changes once a year can make an engine last several hundred thousand miles.

So I will leave with this. Jdub and others you can do what that link says and I will continue with my oil maintenance schedule and thats that. If you guys sincerely beleive and trust that link then I obviously cant disprove it to you and likewise. Many many years of experience back up my oil changes. I have yet to have an engine blow on me (knock on wood) let alone an engine crapping out on me from bad oil or no oil. But I do have a 4g63 with 440awhp on pump @ 23psi and 575awhp at 34psi on c16 with about 32000 miles still running strong! And a datsun 210 with over 400,000 miles still runnning strong and a 5mg with over 235,000mies running strong. And I just recently got a 7mgte with about 144,000miles so does my way work? your dam right it does.

Yeah it was...par for the course for this guy. I'm going to go into the data base and see if I can undelete it
BTW - He logged out shortly after the ninja edit...LOL!

And thanks for the SAE post...I was going to make him buy a membership!

I wouldnt have bought it! Because if the info is important enough and has factual evidence to support it then it would be all over the car community. But the fact remains it isnt and has very little support to back it up.

Nah...just an irritation.
Everyone who's been on SM for a while knows who has good knowledge vs the BS

Drive careful...it's a jungle out there!

Why feel irritated? Is it that irritating to cut and paste? Starscream did it for me thanks again :icon_razz.

Anyways, as always thanks jdub for chatting with me. Although im still confused as to why you made the notion about liberal/and or democrat?

Im guessing from that you are conservtive? However, when debating on a forum seldom do things end up well when you start to incorporate politics. Just my advise to you. :icon_bigg

 

[jdub]

Ok so from the link it says 90% of wear and tear occur n the first 1000miles of an oil change. Now to me that doesnt make sense. Because the additives like they just exclaimed are activated by heat and pressure not time. And when you have start up the additives are activated. Another interesting thing is also 90% of wear and tear occurs during start up. So if you have left your oil in for a long period of time say 10,000 miles then it is most likely very thick and on start up in some conditions if its too thick it wont even start and if it does its worse due to the fact that oil pressure is dropped which then decreases lubrication and cooling.

To me the fact remains that as long as you do the normal scheduled oil changes I have seen engines last very long and in good operating shape. I havent seen many or much proof of doing oil changes once a year can make an engine last several hundred thousand miles.

So I will leave with this. Jdub and others you can do what that link says and I will continue with my oil maintenance schedule and thats that. If you guys sincerely beleive and trust that link then I obviously cant disprove it to you and likewise. Many many years of experience back up my oil changes. I have yet to have an engine blow on me (knock on wood) let alone an engine crapping out on me from bad oil or no oil. But I do have a 4g63 with 440awhp on pump @ 23psi and 575awhp at 34psi on c16 with about 32000 miles still running strong! And a datsun 210 with over 400,000 miles still runnning strong and a 5mg with over 235,000mies running strong. And I just recently got a 7mgte with about 144,000miles so does my way work? your dam right it does.

Wow...you're something else..your ability to rationalize your behavior is unsurpassed
So, now the SAE (you know the Society of Automotive Engineers) is wrong too.

Bottom line...you're wrong. Chris provided the link you asked for. Now where is YOUR proof that 1000 mile oil changes are a good thing to do? What's going to happen here is you are never going to provide it...reason why? It doesn't exist

 

[turbojuiced]

That was one hell of a ninja edit if I've ever seen one

BWAHAHAHA you like that dont you? Like I said I give everyone a chance to prove themselves as well. But if you dont then of course be ready to get :bigun2:

Boy oh boy that was so ::fundy:: :biglaugh:

 

[suprahero]

TJ, I will say one thing for you. Most people wait at least six months before they start trying to over throw Jetjock and Jdub...........you didn't even wait a month............:biglaugh:

As you can see, they're still here though, so I'm betting they know what they're talking about. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and you're entitled to yours as well, but if you wasn't being so hard headed you would read the facts and maybe learn a few things. The facts are their to help you and so are Jdub and JJ. Hopefully you will..............for your evo's sake.

 

[turbojuiced]

Wow...you're something else..your ability to rationalize your behavior is unsurpassed
So, now the SAE (you know the Society of Automotive Engineers) is wrong too.

Bottom line...you're wrong. Chris provided the link you asked for. Now where is YOUR proof that 1000 mile oil changes are a good thing to do? What's going to happen here is you are never gong to provide it...reason why? It doesn't exist

My engines and alot of other peoples engines exist. Also when referring to the repair manual it proves me right too. Now way is it good for an engine to delay oil maintenance especially till 10,000-30,000miles or annually.

Their entire basis for not changin your oil every 3000miles is because the additives arent activated yet. When they also said in that same article the additives are heat and pressure activated which occurs on start up! And where is the conclusive data to show that people change their oil once a year and have good running engines with at least over 200,000miles? So your right I dont see your facts and proof as well.

 

[jdub]

I wouldnt have bought it! Because if the info is important enough and has factual evidence to support it then it would be all over the car community. But the fact remains it isnt and has very little support to back it up.

No, because the import crowd relies on hearsay...a lot like the BS you tried to promote "as fact" here.
And you're still trying to say the SAE is not "factual evidence"...man, it's amazing.

Why feel irritated? Is it that irritating to cut and paste? Starscream did it for me thanks again :icon_razz.

Anyways, as always thanks jdub for chatting with me. Although im still confused as to why you made the notion about liberal/and or democrat?

Im guessing from that you are conservtive? However, when debating on a forum seldom do things end up well when you start to incorporate politics. Just my advise to you. :icon_bigg

No, why would I want to pay for something and provide it to someone who is not going to listen anyway?
If you really cared (or wanted to learn) you would pay for it.

And no, I'm not a conservative...you just exhibit the typical behavior.

My engines and alot of other peoples engines exist. Also when referring to the repair manual it proves me right too. Now way is it good for an engine to delay oil maintenance especially till 10,000-30,000miles or annually.

Their entire basis for not changin your oil every 3000miles is because the additives arent activated yet. When they also said in that same article the additives are heat and pressure activated which occurs on start up! And where is the conclusive data to show that people change their oil once a year and have good running engines with at least over 200,000miles? So your right I dont see your facts and proof as well.

I'm willing to bet your Evo manual doesn't recommend 1000 mile oil changes.

Once again, you are rationalizing the facts to fit your view...I doubt you will change, even if your Evo nuked.
I feel sorry for your Supra though :3d_frown:

I change my oil every 8K...for several years now.

 

[turbojuiced]

TJ, I will say one thing for you. Most people wait at least six months before they start trying to over throw Jetjock and Jdub...........you didn't even wait a month............:biglaugh:

As you can see, they're still here though, so I'm betting they know what they're talking about. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and you're entitled to yours as well, but if you wasn't being so hard headed you would read the facts and maybe learn a few things. The facts are their to help you and so are Jdub and JJ. Hopefully you will..............for your evo's sake.

well im not hard headed as I have read the link he has to offer and the other link starscream has. However, I dont just take peoples word for it if I did that I prolly wouldve gone through many engines already. Yes they are still here so what? That doesnt prove anything to me other than they have alot fo time on their hands :biglaugh:

My cars have been running very well way before I met these guys and will continue to. Not to say they arnt knowledgeable. Im sure I will learn about the 7mgte from these guys but as far as oil maintenance I highly doubt it .

 

[starscream5000]

Little advice, you don't have to have a membership to get the info, A little time searching the net will yeild this info, it's a lot easier to find it than you think .