how do u know if the rings are seated
- Thread starter suprawalt
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Turbojuiced, welcome to Supramania, in case I haven't welcomed you already.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing your oil every 1500 miles if you have money to burn. It's yours to do with what you want, but I will tell you if Jdub tells you that you can run your oil for fifteen thousand miles (and he's not), but if he does then you can rest assure that he's did the appropriate tests and has facts to back it up. That's how he got the title of EXPERT. As far as him flaming you, he's one of the most civil moderators that we have, and a lot of us are glad we have him. He's helped me out in pm's a handful of times.
If you sleep better at night changing your oil once a month then go for it. I choose to use Redline 5w30 and I change it every five thousand miles even though I can probably go longer. That's what I feel comfortable with, and plus it takes me like six months or longer to put that many miles on my car.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing your oil every 1500 miles if you have money to burn. It's yours to do with what you want, but I will tell you if Jdub tells you that you can run your oil for fifteen thousand miles (and he's not), but if he does then you can rest assure that he's did the appropriate tests and has facts to back it up. That's how he got the title of EXPERT. As far as him flaming you, he's one of the most civil moderators that we have, and a lot of us are glad we have him. He's helped me out in pm's a handful of times.
If you sleep better at night changing your oil once a month then go for it. I choose to use Redline 5w30 and I change it every five thousand miles even though I can probably go longer. That's what I feel comfortable with, and plus it takes me like six months or longer to put that many miles on my car.
IHI-RHC7;993482 said:
Huh? I don't recall that. I could have forgotten though. From where I sit you've always been one of the more informed members here.
Tubojuiced: I've been reading your posts but staying quiet. I've notice a few things about them though. One is you're at the stage in learning where you know enough to be dangerous. I suspect at some point you're going to be a very knowledgeable guy but right now there are many things you don't know and worse, you don't know you don't know them.
As for this subject you can change your oil as often as you like. It's your engine and your money. That said you might want to consider how ignorant it makes you look to those who are truly knowledgeable about this. That would seem to be at odds with the image you're trying to present. It also proves my point above.
One thing I want to point out about oil change intervals...like a lot of other things, it depends. When I say this mileage for this type oil, I'm assuming a well running motor. If you have coolant, excessive condensation, fuel from blow-by, etc in the oil...that changes things...a lot.
That is one of the best reasons to have oil analysis done. It gives you a very good idea what's going on inside your engine, in addition to telling you when it needs to be changed.
Big believer in these
They filter to the point where the oil is analytically clean...you will not have particulates much over 1 micron floating around in your oil. They remove moisture in the oil too.
That is one of the best reasons to have oil analysis done. It gives you a very good idea what's going on inside your engine, in addition to telling you when it needs to be changed.
IHI-RHC7;993482 said:
Big believer in these
They filter to the point where the oil is analytically clean...you will not have particulates much over 1 micron floating around in your oil. They remove moisture in the oil too.
turbojuiced;993485 said:
Not for anything but last I checked the EVO community in the US is just a paultry 3 years old (2005 as the debut of the car).
We went through this and brought EXPERTS into the mix with profesional oil analysis done on the oil and the conclusion were exactly as Jdub stated. This was quite a while ago mind you.
Again you can change the oil every single mile if you so desire. Just because you can does not mean you should though
There is a couple of reasons that race team do oil analysis and one of them is to see how the oil is holding up in those specific condition and how the engine is doind with aforementioned oil. INVALUABLE tool.
turbojuiced;993472 said:
It's not because of that, it's because he's an SME (Subject Matter Expert on motor oils) along with a mod. His duty as an SME is to squash missinformation as soon as it pops up, regardless of if he sounds harsh or not.
John is a really nice guy to deal with though, I know it's hard to interpret the attitude of a post on the internet, but if he were telling you this in person, I'm 99% sure it would come out of his mouth politely
.
I doubt he has ever done analysis. Look at his reasoning behind the short OCIs. He "loves" to have fresh oil. Makes him "feel good". "Money well spent". Real science there. Considering we're dealing with a technical subject that alone doesn't make him look smart. Not only is what he doing a waste of time, money, and a precious resource but it's actually *increasing* his engine wear. So say studies by the SAE and others. Oops...
figgie;994112 said:Not for anything but last I checked the EVO community in the US is just a paultry 3 years old (2005 as the debut of the car).
We went through this and brought EXPERTS into the mix with profesional oil analysis done on the oil and the conclusion were exactly as Jdub stated. This was quite a while ago mind you.
Again you can change the oil every single mile if you so desire. Just because you can does not mean you should though
Uhh where have you been all this time buddy? Evos in the US have been around since 03 not 05. And secondly the 4g63 has been around alot longer here in the US if I remember correctly going on 17yrs. So do some more hw on that.
And why shouldnt you? If you want to change your oil then by no means is it necassarily wrong. Just like jdub said it may not be needed but there isnt anything wrong with it. And conditions do apply when oil needs to be changed like that of my evo since I am boosting about 35psi at times I tend to get more blow by than when I use to boost stock which was around 21psi. So these things need tobe taken into consideration.
suprahero;994023 said:
Awesome nice to meet you too. And yes we came to a concensus on that and I really do enjoy conversing with jdub and all of you and hopefully someday we can get a meet together. take care buddy:icon_razz
starscream5000;994117 said:It's not because of that, it's because he's an SME (Subject Matter Expert on motor oils) along with a mod. His duty as an SME is to squash missinformation as soon as it pops up, regardless of if he sounds harsh or not.
John is a really nice guy to deal with though, I know it's hard to interpret the attitude of a post on the internet, but if he were telling you this in person, I'm 99% sure it would come out of his mouth politely
Oh I totally agree. And im glad hes around. It is difficult at times to tell peoples demeanor through a post. So thats why I asked before I said anything else. And I am glad I did cause he is a really fair and honest guy. :icon_bigg
Thanks everyone
jetjock;994145 said:
Wow so your saying that because I change my oil more often its increasing engine wear and tear? I highly doubt SAE says that. Please tell me thats a typo or I just cant read. :yelrotflm
And you talk of waisting resources last time I did a oil change there are things called oil recycling bins where the oil gets what we call recycled.
Now the time and money bit I may agree with you on however my engine positively will stay well oiled which means less engine work for me in the future which would cost alot more money and time than an oil change. So like I said maybe on the time and money thing.
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turbojuiced;994388 said:
I think you'd be a little more than suprised to look into this a more when you have the spare time
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turbojuiced;994374 said:
I did not say that...if you are going to quote me, I expect accuracy. Please do not use my name again to support what you are doing.
Just for the record, I am absolutely, completely opposed to frequent oil changes...especially at the intervals you do. This applies to just about any car out there, including your Evo...if you have the kind of blow-by that would require this frequent of a change, you've got a lot bigger problems
turbojuiced;994388 said:
JJ is correct...SAE data has shown frequent oil changes increase wear on a motor.
He is also correct in his accessment of your reasoning used to support what you are doing. I got over using my "feelings" a long time ago. You may "love" clean oil and the way it makes you "feel good", but the last thing it does is "money well spent". Until you come up with technical data to support what you do, it will fall on deaf ears...at least on this forum.
starscream5000;994391 said:I think you'd be a little more than suprised to look into this a more when you have the spare time
Well I have been reading the link that jdub has and it is very interesting however, Dr. Haas seems to be disproving alot of the common knowledge of oil and what SAE really says about oil and its charactaristics about temperature and viscosity and how they relate. Lots and lots of info I have learned. Right now I am on link 004. And so far I havent seen one sentence where it says "the more you change your oil the worse it is for your engine." But nonetheless I am not done yet so let me finish.
"This is just theory however. With normal oil change intervals the VI improver will not wear out and so the problem does not really exist. In fact, oils do thin a little with use. This is partly from dilution with blow by gasoline and partly from VI improvers being used up. What is more interesting is that with further use motor oils actually thicken and this is much worse than the minimal thinning that may have occurred earlier.
Synthetic oils are a whole different story. There is no VI improver added so there is nothing to wear out. The actual oil molecules never wear out. You could almost use the same oil forever. The problem is that there are other additives and they do get used up. I suppose if there was a good way to keep oil clean you could just add a can of additives every 6 months and just change the filter, never changing the oil.
When the additives wear out in a synthetic oil it still has the same viscosity. It will not thin as a mineral oil. The fear that some say Porsche has that oils thin when the VI runs out is not applicable to these synthetic oils. These oils will always have the correct thickness when hot and will still be too thick at startup as with all oils of all types, regardless of the API / SAE viscosity rating.
Automotive engine manufacturers know these principals of motor oils. They know there is thinning or thickening that will occur. They take these things into account when they write that owners manual. Mineral oil change recommendations will generally include shorter time intervals than those of synthetic oils.
The reality is that motor oils do not need to be changed because they thin with use. It is the eventual thickening that limits the time you may keep oil in your engine. The limit is both time itself (with no motor use) and/or mileage use."
This is very interesting. Its not the thinning of oil rather its the thickening. Different from what SAE exclaims in their research. The normal common knowledge is that the oil thins out loosing its VI properties and of course other additives needing to be changed and in synthetic oil it has no VI property so the oil itself can be used all the time but it looses its additives. So it still needs to be changed but not as often as regular motor oil.
turbojuiced;994407 said:
Take your time, most don't like taking the time to read things like this, glad someone does
Heres another interesting find. Dr. Haas likes to use pennzoil.
"Never-the-less I use plain Pennzoil multigrade mineral based 5W-20 in my Ford Expedition. This oil is thin enough at startup to have many of the attributes I just mentioned."
Last I knew, Pennzoil was a Group II+ base mineral oil ... and has been for several years. Look on their bottles for the "Pure Base" label which means their Group II+ level of refining.
This is the highest level of refining of a mineral oil. Any higher than that (Group III) and it is deemed a "synthetic."
Also, Pennzoil uses a much more robust additive package ... more molybdenum ... and boron as well. These are powerful anti-wear compounds used in conjunction with ZDDP (zinc phosphate).
But people still have that knowledge about pennzoil (in general) for two reasons:
1) they are often times called "pennsludge"
2) The old, old rumor/myth that Pennzoil leaves a waxy build-up in engines due to the oil being peraffin based.
"Never-the-less I use plain Pennzoil multigrade mineral based 5W-20 in my Ford Expedition. This oil is thin enough at startup to have many of the attributes I just mentioned."
Last I knew, Pennzoil was a Group II+ base mineral oil ... and has been for several years. Look on their bottles for the "Pure Base" label which means their Group II+ level of refining.
This is the highest level of refining of a mineral oil. Any higher than that (Group III) and it is deemed a "synthetic."
Also, Pennzoil uses a much more robust additive package ... more molybdenum ... and boron as well. These are powerful anti-wear compounds used in conjunction with ZDDP (zinc phosphate).
But people still have that knowledge about pennzoil (in general) for two reasons:
1) they are often times called "pennsludge"
2) The old, old rumor/myth that Pennzoil leaves a waxy build-up in engines due to the oil being peraffin based.
turbojuiced;994431 said:
actually outside of this forum it is called those silly names. In this forum it is just another oil. And a viable one at that. as for the evo. I missed it by 2 years. so 5 years instead of three years. A younglin community by any standard. The DSM crowd, anyone in the know like buchur racing etc, will reiterate what we have been saying here. Almost verbatim actually.
figgie;994435 said:
I like how you mentioned the DSM community becasue if you knew the engine that is in the evo is the exact same as in any gsx or gst the only difference is that the engine placement is different. I guess you could argue the difference is that the head design is a little different and the adding of mivec when the evo 9 came out but nonetheless the 4g63 is the same engine. Also even some galants have the 4g63 as well. Like I said the actual evo comm may be young here in the states but that doesnt mean its young if you know what I mean.
O btw, its buschur racing. And they will be the first to tell you that their knowledge about the 4g63 runs waay deep and much much time and research. Other great companies like Turbotrix, AMS, and Vishnu all have similar knowledge and have done some amazing things. These companies have pushed the 4g63(whethor it be an evo, gsx, gst, galant) to very impressive times on the track. They have gotten the 4g63 to run with 1400awhp running 7-8sec in the 1/4 so this just hasnt been research for only 5yrs its been going on for probably almost as long as you have been breathing.
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I love his comparisons with gear oil and regular motor oil. Very interesting evaluations. And different cS ratings on different oils and conditions due to it depending on pressure and temp.
Now I just read all the links and I have to be honest with you all nowhere did it say that "the more you change your oil the worse it is for an engine." However, it did say that too thin and too thick of oil is not conducive to engines. And one could argue that when adding a too thin or thick oil could cause issues due to the lack of surface tension and pressurization needed to create lubrication and cooling in an engine. He said he likes his oil pressure around 80psi @6000rpms and thats pretty much how he determines what kind of oil to use. Based on engine wear and tear he finds himself using thicker and thicker oils as time goes on in his expedition. His marenello though he uses a 0w-30 which he says is actully better for most cars and driving uses. I really like those links jdub. I am going to read them again because it is alot of info to take in.
Now I just read all the links and I have to be honest with you all nowhere did it say that "the more you change your oil the worse it is for an engine." However, it did say that too thin and too thick of oil is not conducive to engines. And one could argue that when adding a too thin or thick oil could cause issues due to the lack of surface tension and pressurization needed to create lubrication and cooling in an engine. He said he likes his oil pressure around 80psi @6000rpms and thats pretty much how he determines what kind of oil to use. Based on engine wear and tear he finds himself using thicker and thicker oils as time goes on in his expedition. His marenello though he uses a 0w-30 which he says is actully better for most cars and driving uses. I really like those links jdub. I am going to read them again because it is alot of info to take in.
turbojuiced;994448 said:
As long as I been breathing? Somehow, unless they have been around since the destruction of Pangia, I doubt it
I am not that old but Break dancing the movie and Break Dancing 2: Electric Boogaloo.. I saw it in theaters when it came out in the 80's
figgie;994476 said:As long as I been breathing? Somehow, unless they have been around since the destruction of Pangia, I doubt it
I am not that old but Break dancing the movie and Break Dancing 2: Electric Boogaloo.. I saw it in theaters when it came out in the 80's
:yelrotflm:yelrotflm
Well although the companies only have been around since late 90's early 01. They have been tinkering with dsm's since the 80's. Not to mention the rest of the dsm comm. The engine has been around since the late 80's Like I said prolly around as long as you been breathing :biglaugh:.
Take it as a compliment I am making you look younger
turbojuiced;994452 said:
Dr Haas didn't make this assesment the SAE did. IIRC the Dr. hasn't proven this data as being false yet...
jdub;994404 said: