HELP! failed smog twice!

[Rennat]

Car: 1986.5 N/A, Rebuilt engine, 5-speed, air filter, and pipe that replaces the silencer are my only 'mods' effecting engine output. and i have my coolant lines looped for the throttle body. NGK coppers are gapped at like .30 i believe, if any of that matters...

First smog: went, everything was fine, passed everything except my HD was at 148, and the max is 124.... sigh... my car was starting to overheat because the tech forgot to put my e-fan on, so the first smog was done under a MUCH hotter engine than normal.

went home, and looked over everything and made sure the car was all good. ends up my timing was at 8 Degrees on the first smog, so i reset it with a wire hooked up the diagnostic box, and reset it to 10 degrees.

Second smog: made sure the e-fan was on during ALL testing, and everything was fine and checked out good, NO over-heating what so ever, test was done under normal operation temps.

now, i do have an exhaust leak, but its after the cat, and the smog tech didnt really seem to care, even though its a little on the big side... i can feel about a 1/5 of my rear flange isnt flat anymore, so it leaks out of there, but that shouldnt effect my HC...
AND: i passed evap both times.
Pic one is results of smog one, and pic two is of results for smog two.





Pics are too big to post... lol

 

[Clip]

would a working/nonworking egr affect anything?

 

[Rennat]

ends up i had code 22... im thinking the smog tech might have hit the connector (cause the connectors are OLD and sometimes dont stay on very well)

 

[dumbo]

I'd say the fan not on deffenitly helped your HC, when i would have to do AirCare(BC's Smog test) i would bag the shit out of my car, not a supra then:3d_frown: so it was nice and hot and put a bottle of methol hydrate in to about a half tank, dunno if it made a difference but only failed once, i'd say the exaust leak would also help your cause.

now i'm not saying put a bottle of methol hydrate in, not sure if its bad for anything, maybe if you advance your timing a bit more, so the fuel has more time to burn? lower you HC.

anyone else here ever use Methol hydrate?

 

[Poodles]

O2 sensor in good shape?

You're running rich, plain and simple. You could just get a cat for it, but it might just be masking the main problem...

 

[johnathan1]

Yea, when did you last replace your o2 sensor?

 

[Zumtizzle]

3rd vote for o2.


Test it out. It's not hard.

 

[Rennat]

o2 should be good, but im still over-heating on the rollers... gonna go to autozone and get a new thermostat and rad cap...

but we bought the o2 sensor within the last 3 years (about 20k on it now) same with the cat...

 

[suprastanger507mgte]

Hot car, non working EGR, bad cat, or bad O2 as everyone suggested. I know a car running hot can cause higher NOx reading from what i was told. EGR is there to help.
IOf your car is running lean will cause higher Nox as well.

 

[figgie]

High HC has nothing to do with EGR.

What are the other numbers though (NOx and CO)?

this would paint a better picture as to where you need to focus your attention.

 

[Poodles]

He has the links to the inspection sheets in his first post.

He's high on everything though not enough to fail him...

As a comparison, here's what mine was with the mods listed in my sig:

Limits are shown in ( )

High speed (25MPH):

HC 64 (140)
CO 0.05 (0.89)
CO2 14.6
O2 0.0
NOx 61(984)
Dilution 14.7(>6)

Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 136(144)
CO 0.12(0.81)
CO2 14.5
O2 0.1
NOx 217(1077)
Dilution 14.6(>6)

 

[figgie]

He has the links to the inspection sheets in his first post.

He's high on everything though not enough to fail him...

sorry

no access to photobucket or imagestation or any of those personal sites @ work.

 

[Zumtizzle]

but we bought the o2 sensor within the last 3 years (about 20k on it now) same with the cat...

Don't mean jack.

Go get a damn multimeter and test it.

But Figgie is the Man When it comes to stuff like this.

 

[Poodles]

OK, I'll write em up for you, I'll edit this post with the what his results where. Also, upon looking at it, I wouldn't have passed either as their levels are much lower. Typical Cali crap...

EDIT: His high O2 levels and his high NOx levels compared to me looks like he's not properly igniting the fuel and looks like EGR isn't working. Also, he said he had a code 22, but the engine assumes normal operating temp in that case.

First test
High speed (25MPH):

HC 75 (99)
CO 0.25 (0.58)
CO2 14.23
O2 0.56
NOx 334(919)


Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 148(124)
CO 0.71(0.78)
CO2 13.85
O2 0.71
NOx 829(1089)


Second Test
High speed (25MPH):

HC 98 (99)
CO 0.28 (0.58)
CO2 14.27
O2 0.65
NOx 518(919)


Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 171(124)
CO 0.58(0.78)
CO2 13.86
O2 0.9
NOx 958(1089)

 

[figgie]

As a comparison, here's what mine was with the mods listed in my sig:

Limits are shown in ( )

High speed (25MPH):

HC 64 (140)
CO 0.05 (0.89)
CO2 14.6
O2 0.0
NOx 61(984)
Dilution 14.7(>6)

Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 136(144)
CO 0.12(0.81)
CO2 14.5
O2 0.1
NOx 217(1077)
Dilution 14.6(>6)

Poodles

I know these are yours. The HC did pass for you but you are teetering at the edge (for the low speed). What gear # was the test done in?

What is your fuel pressure like?

The NOx are nice and low which are always welcomed!

 

[Poodles]

Low speed I think was done in second. I also only have one cat, and it's a high flow metal core cat, so it's not going to be as good as some.

Fuel system is all stock.

 

[figgie]

OK, I'll write em up for you, I'll edit this post with the what his results where. Also, upon looking at it, I wouldn't have passed either as their levels are much lower. Typical Cali crap...

EDIT: His high O2 levels and his high NOx levels compared to me looks like he's not properly igniting the fuel and looks like EGR isn't working. Also, he said he had a code 22, but the engine assumes normal operating temp in that case.

First test
High speed (25MPH):

HC 75 (99)
CO 0.25 (0.58)
CO2 14.23
O2 0.56
NOx 334(919)


Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 148(124)
CO 0.71(0.78)
CO2 13.85
O2 0.71
NOx 829(1089)


Second Test
High speed (25MPH):

HC 98 (99)
CO 0.28 (0.58)
CO2 14.27
O2 0.65
NOx 518(919)


Low Speed (15MPH)

HC 171(124)
CO 0.58(0.78)
CO2 13.86
O2 0.9
NOx 958(1089)

Rennat

check your TPS and adjust if needed. Once TPS is adjusted, recheck ignition timing. Vacuum hose routing? EGR connected fine? How about the VSV controlling the EGR valve? Those NOx are too high, meaning something in your EGR is amiss (yes I know you still passed on the NOx front ).

Check the water Temp sensor per TSRM
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=113

Poodles

gotcha on the Metal Substrate cat. Was it nice and warm prior to testing? Those RT cats are pretty good at cleaning up the exhaust real well.

 

[Rennat]

got a new o2 sensor, so thats done with. new rad cap and new thermostat...

what was your ignition timing at time of smog (for anybody who has passed)

and my car was originally from hawaii... if that makes a difference.
but im going to go 'burp' my coolant system now...


Edit:

if you want, i can also post up the previous smog results(2005, 2006) if that would help. i'll write them out so everybody can see them.

 

[Zumtizzle]

My turbo's and 2JZGE were all dead on what the sticker on the hood says.

Your EGR has something wrong.

All my Turbo Supras had 2 digit NOx Readings, and my lexus was pretty low too.

 

[johnathan1]

Test your EGR system the way it is outlined in the TSRM. Make sure the EGR valve isn't clogged (apply manifold vacuum directly to the EGR valve, and see if the engine dies) and check that the EGR VSV is functioning (remove it and apply 12V to the plug terminals, it should click, if it doesn't click, it's not working, and the EGR modulator isn't getting vac.)