Grumpy Old Men ?? Hmmmm
- Thread starter Davismj711
- Start date
Wait a minute. Is this a long winded old fart thread?
Sometimes the hostility comes from answering the same questions over and over. And also those who are trying to prove to one's self that they are better than someone else. They rip into somebody forgetting that at one point they knew as much as the OP. I try to give the best advice that I can if it is heeded.
I've read too many threads about someone trying to get alot HP out of a motor without understanding how it will effect the motor's reliability and lifespan. They can't or don't understand that when you build your motor for WOT power you cause your power band to shift into the upper RPM range and narrow the range of the power band. Then they complain about how sluggish their motor is when it's out of the power band. Also with the more power you make the hotter the motor runs. Then they end up with a BHG and blame the motor and not how the motor was built and who built it. If something goes wrong with my motor it's because I screwed the pooch somewhere and now I have to correct what I did wrong. I'm not going to say Toyota made a shitty motor because they didn't. Somehow I fucked something up and it bit me in the ass later on.
Don't feel bad about not going to school for Auto-Tech. I spent two years and just learned the basics. I worked in my friend's custom shop and learned more in the 6 months I was there then I did in school. I may not know alot about motors but I try to be understanding of those you know less than I do and try to give the best advice I can.
Sometimes the hostility comes from answering the same questions over and over. And also those who are trying to prove to one's self that they are better than someone else. They rip into somebody forgetting that at one point they knew as much as the OP. I try to give the best advice that I can if it is heeded.
I've read too many threads about someone trying to get alot HP out of a motor without understanding how it will effect the motor's reliability and lifespan. They can't or don't understand that when you build your motor for WOT power you cause your power band to shift into the upper RPM range and narrow the range of the power band. Then they complain about how sluggish their motor is when it's out of the power band. Also with the more power you make the hotter the motor runs. Then they end up with a BHG and blame the motor and not how the motor was built and who built it. If something goes wrong with my motor it's because I screwed the pooch somewhere and now I have to correct what I did wrong. I'm not going to say Toyota made a shitty motor because they didn't. Somehow I fucked something up and it bit me in the ass later on.
Don't feel bad about not going to school for Auto-Tech. I spent two years and just learned the basics. I worked in my friend's custom shop and learned more in the 6 months I was there then I did in school. I may not know alot about motors but I try to be understanding of those you know less than I do and try to give the best advice I can.
HommerSimpson;1010084 said:
I'm 52 and I fart dust!
Now, I've built a lot of 60's and 70's Chevys, Dodges and British sports cars, but I don't know CRAP about this Supra I have. I feel like a complete idiot asking about turbo's and AFM things, because I never worked on a car that relies on electronics to haul butt.
My cummins dodge pickup is pushing 800 lbs of torque at almost 35 psi, but thats only by dumping as much fuel as I can into it. Hook up the little black box, install 4" exhaust, a giant air filter and hold on!
I only know enough about this Supra to realize that it can go a little bit faster than all of my other cars that I've ever had, but I don't know how to do it!
For me, it's attitude and a willingness to learn. Too many times I've seen (and been on the receiving end) of a defensive reaction that is so common now and days. The "you're talking down to me" types, or the guys with a thin skin that do not like to be told what they are doing is flat wrong (in general...pointing fingers at no one here). Then after you help, you don't even get a thank you.
Then there are those that give you minimum info, expect an answer, and get bent out of shape when you ask for more info...I really have a hard time understanding this group. The worst are those that really "don't know what they think they know"...even after providing proof, they stick to their belief in the face of the facts. I won't even read a post that's one long sentence that uses text messaging abbreviations.
What happens after a while is you just get tired of pulling teeth to get additional info, the defensive reactions, and the lack of appreciation. I don't know how many times I've known the answer, saw who was asking the question and just kept my mouth shut. The only time I'll speak up on these threads is if someone else posts misinformation, and that's for the benefit of anyone else that might read the thread, not the OP.
If more of the guys here would read this thread and take it to heart, it would go a long way helping me to help those with a problem:
Dealing with the "oldschool" guys (or: How to ask smart questions..)
BTW - Good to see some more "old farts" here...I'll be 50 next month
Then there are those that give you minimum info, expect an answer, and get bent out of shape when you ask for more info...I really have a hard time understanding this group. The worst are those that really "don't know what they think they know"...even after providing proof, they stick to their belief in the face of the facts. I won't even read a post that's one long sentence that uses text messaging abbreviations.
What happens after a while is you just get tired of pulling teeth to get additional info, the defensive reactions, and the lack of appreciation. I don't know how many times I've known the answer, saw who was asking the question and just kept my mouth shut. The only time I'll speak up on these threads is if someone else posts misinformation, and that's for the benefit of anyone else that might read the thread, not the OP.
If more of the guys here would read this thread and take it to heart, it would go a long way helping me to help those with a problem:
Dealing with the "oldschool" guys (or: How to ask smart questions..)
BTW - Good to see some more "old farts" here...I'll be 50 next month
When I get frustrated while trying to help someone I just have to remember that I was once in their shoes. And someday they will be in my shoes and I just have to laugh because pay backs are a bitch. Karma can be a real mudderfudder.
I just turn 39 last month but I tell the young ladies I'm 25 with experience.
I just turn 39 last month but I tell the young ladies I'm 25 with experience.
I agree...and I always try to remember that. The difference is I always admitted I didn't know right off the bat and put the effort into trying to figure it out by reading the book. At least I tried to have a base to work from and understand the terminology. What is frustrating to see is the expectation to be given the info (spoon fed) in a step-by-step manner (with pics) and having to deal with dumbing it down to the point where accuracy is lost in the answer.
LMAO @ karma...it's the old "mothers curse" when then you're raising your kids. What goes around, comes around
LMAO @ karma...it's the old "mothers curse" when then you're raising your kids. What goes around, comes around
Yes it would be alot better if some of the people that reply.. Would reply in a more respectfull way like
Nope this is the way it works... heres the link to the what ever what ever that will explain with facts and documentation..
Or
With what i have learned this is the way i found it to work..
When people state what they think or how they think it works. its because of what they believe and think and have learned..not all cars work the same way even tho some are designed almost identical..
Instead of calling people names because they have there own belief
..sad thing is .. its the internet.. and 99% of the people that are rude on here would not even think of acting the way they do in public...
Ive spent 10 years in a computer tech chat room everyday.. Learning and watching and helping thousands of people over the years...Learned alot helped alot and gave miss information at times.. its happens.. im human..
The people that think they are perfect is what drags comunitys down..
Nope this is the way it works... heres the link to the what ever what ever that will explain with facts and documentation..
Or
With what i have learned this is the way i found it to work..
When people state what they think or how they think it works. its because of what they believe and think and have learned..not all cars work the same way even tho some are designed almost identical..
Instead of calling people names because they have there own belief
..sad thing is .. its the internet.. and 99% of the people that are rude on here would not even think of acting the way they do in public...
Ive spent 10 years in a computer tech chat room everyday.. Learning and watching and helping thousands of people over the years...Learned alot helped alot and gave miss information at times.. its happens.. im human..
The people that think they are perfect is what drags comunitys down..
jdub;1010200 said:
It goes back to how some of the younger generation was raised. Immediate gratification. Some don't want to put the work in while some have problems understanding. Personally I have a learning disability and sometimes I can not grasp the concept that it being explained to me. You can beat me over the head with the manual but it just makes my headache from trying to comprehend worse.
Immediate gratification?
As one of the younger members (of the 'new' generation) I'd like to just give a hearty 'Fuck you' to all my fellows that feel the rest of the world owes them something.
As one of the younger members (of the 'new' generation) I'd like to just give a hearty 'Fuck you' to all my fellows that feel the rest of the world owes them something.
labrat469;1010198 said:
I was NEVER in their shoes as I was a sponge and eager to actually learn the correct way of doing things from the minute I started working on cars
Same here. I'm only 19 but I've spent the last 5 years learning and researching everything I could about these cars and cars in general. Google has helped, but more the forums towards all sorts of knowledge. I talked with Jeff Lange once a year or two ago about making one big FAQ/info novel about the MkIII, but neither of us had enough time or interest in doing so.
I'd still like to, but I wouldnt know where to start. Something like a detailed list of the differences in generations, pre89 vs. 89+, what does and doesnt work, etc.
I'm a total asshole to people who are ignorant and/or people who expect things with nothing in return. People should be grateful for the valuable information on here, not take it forgranted. A lot of us arent here to entertain the masses..I know I'm back here and not SF because this site has been much more tech oriented.
I'd still like to, but I wouldnt know where to start. Something like a detailed list of the differences in generations, pre89 vs. 89+, what does and doesnt work, etc.
I'm a total asshole to people who are ignorant and/or people who expect things with nothing in return. People should be grateful for the valuable information on here, not take it forgranted. A lot of us arent here to entertain the masses..I know I'm back here and not SF because this site has been much more tech oriented.
You can't help people that won't help themselves.
That line right there speaks VOLUMES and generally answers every question that's asked in this thread.
I read and read and READ, and if I STILL can't find the answer, I post. I have very few threads that I have started because of this.
I haven't been part of this community, or owned a Supra for as long as many of the people on here, but I do everything I can to learn.
After having a shop ruin my door, and totally fuck up on a clutch install, I now do all my own work. If it's cost prohibitive (like head work since I don't have a couple thousand dollars laying around to buy the machines to cut the seats and surface the head), then I get the work done. Everything else, I break out the TSRM and get to work.
My brother who has been working on cars far longer than me thought I couldn't do it, but I've shown him through my actions and he respects me for it now.
Respect is earned, and the new people that come on the forums that expect respect usually receive none.
Oh, and if you think this forum is bad, try the other one...
That line right there speaks VOLUMES and generally answers every question that's asked in this thread.
I read and read and READ, and if I STILL can't find the answer, I post. I have very few threads that I have started because of this.
I haven't been part of this community, or owned a Supra for as long as many of the people on here, but I do everything I can to learn.
After having a shop ruin my door, and totally fuck up on a clutch install, I now do all my own work. If it's cost prohibitive (like head work since I don't have a couple thousand dollars laying around to buy the machines to cut the seats and surface the head), then I get the work done. Everything else, I break out the TSRM and get to work.
My brother who has been working on cars far longer than me thought I couldn't do it, but I've shown him through my actions and he respects me for it now.
Respect is earned, and the new people that come on the forums that expect respect usually receive none.
Oh, and if you think this forum is bad, try the other one...
This forum rocks. I mean, you've got guys that will detail every single little thing, and you've got guys that will give you the information you need to find what you need to learn.
A lot of people have problems with guys like JJ - and if you step back and think about it - someone is taking time out of their day, to give you a nudge in the right direction - and you are angry that they won't take more time out of their day to help you? That's BS, imho.
The wealth of information available in that funny little button called 'SEARCH' will keep you busy for hours - I know, I've scoured a hell of a lot of this database, looking for the majority of the information I've needed.
A lot of people have problems with guys like JJ - and if you step back and think about it - someone is taking time out of their day, to give you a nudge in the right direction - and you are angry that they won't take more time out of their day to help you? That's BS, imho.
The wealth of information available in that funny little button called 'SEARCH' will keep you busy for hours - I know, I've scoured a hell of a lot of this database, looking for the majority of the information I've needed.
ignorant = do not have knowledge
stupid = have been told repeatedly and still don't get it/want to get it
i have no problem telling someone who does'nt know how to fix something. they learn and say,'oh i see now',but someone who is just being stupid pisses me off
stupid = have been told repeatedly and still don't get it/want to get it
i have no problem telling someone who does'nt know how to fix something. they learn and say,'oh i see now',but someone who is just being stupid pisses me off
Doward;1010427 said:
IJ.;1010434 said:I was NEVER in their shoes as I was a sponge and eager to actually learn the correct way of doing things from the minute I started working on cars
Cheers :biggrinki
Unfortunately some not all of the younger generation are so use to having things handed to them. They got whatever they wanted for so long they expect others to do the same. If you live in a college town you would know what I mean.
Stupid, I was called that all throughout school because the teachers either did not understand or were willing to deal with a student that was learning disable. The school's idea of dealing with the learning disable was to stick them in a class by themselves and forget about them like they never existed. I was told to drop out and stop wasting my teacher's time because there were other students that wanted to learn. Please don't confuse those who have a problem learning and want to learn and those who want you to do it for them.
OMG! Do we sound like our parents?!?!?!?!
Yea were some grumpy old farts... but you kids made us this way...:biglaugh:
Stupid, I was called that all throughout school because the teachers either did not understand or were willing to deal with a student that was learning disable. The school's idea of dealing with the learning disable was to stick them in a class by themselves and forget about them like they never existed. I was told to drop out and stop wasting my teacher's time because there were other students that wanted to learn. Please don't confuse those who have a problem learning and want to learn and those who want you to do it for them.
OMG! Do we sound like our parents?!?!?!?!
Yea were some grumpy old farts... but you kids made us this way...:biglaugh:
labrat469;1010824 said:
Ugh, one of the biggest things I can say to sum up my first year at college about other people is that you dont have to be smart to go to college :3d_frown:
Just like you dont have to be smart to have kids, drive, buy a car...etc...:3d_frown::3d_frown::3d_frown:
labrat469;1010824 said:
Damn right. Working in Gainesville I get that constantly. But you know what? It's just as much fun 2 years later, shutting their attitude down and showing them the door, as it was the first time I got to experience this 'You owe me!!' attitude.
Do NOT presume to tell me what I can and can not do, when I am taking time out of my day to help you. You will get absolutely nothing from me.
It's actually a problem that I've found a lot of the younger generation has - just because you offer to help, does not put you into a contract to do as they please. I can (and will) at any point shut you the fuck up and continue about my day.
Granted, I get this from some older adults, too, but not nearly as much as I get it from my fellow students!