Group A's group a rebuild

[yannis-supras]

0>10 psi in 24 hours !

Yannis: Do you have any compressor maps for your Turbo's and an idea of what boost you'll be running?

yeap I though that someone should ask about that and I'm glad it's you Ian. So here's the comp. map:

sould be running about 0.9-1 bar to get about 450-500bhp if my calculations are right (maybe 1.1bar tops)

 

[group a supra]

Ok so you think that my i/c is not too big for my T3s (genuine question)?

no i dont but proffessor ian will just check for us

 

[IJ.]

Yannis: 2.250" into the IC will work well for your requirements, for the Comp outlets I'd just match ID's.

As for the IC itself you want something that will flow around the 1000 cfm mark or higher, volume will be up to you though.

1 bar isn't going to stress it too much.

 

[yannis-supras]

Yannis: 2.250" into the IC will work well for your requirements,

Ian are you reffering to the i/c inlet, that's 3" OD on my i/c, about 74-75mm ID.

for the Comp outlets I'd just match ID's.

Well they're both the same 35-38mm ID on the comps and they'll both go to equal 50mm ID pipes

As for the IC itself you want something that will flow around the 1000 cfm mark or higher, volume will be up to you though.

I think my i/c is somewhere in the 1400cfm region

1 bar isn't going to stress it too much.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[IJ.]

Ian are you reffering to the i/c inlet, that's 3" OD on my i/c, about 74-75mm ID.

The pipe from the Compressor Y to the IC, any bigger and you'll lose velocity and might "feel" perceived lag.



Well they're both the same 35-38mm ID on the comps and they'll both go to equal 50mm ID pipes

For the above reason as long as there aren't any tight radius bends I'd try and keep to the 38mm ID.




I think my i/c is somewhere in the 1400cfm region

Perfect!




Is that a good thing or a bad thing?[/QUOTE]

It's a good thing as you're not heating the charge much at 1 bar if that's enough to meet your power requirement!

 

[yannis-supras]

Ian are you reffering to the i/c inlet, that's 3" OD on my i/c, about 74-75mm ID.

The pipe from the Compressor Y to the IC, any bigger and you'll lose velocity and might "feel" perceived lag.

That means that that pipe should be less than 60mm. Isn't there a rule of thumb that the hot i/c pipe should be of equal diameter to the comp's diameter? If yes, doesn't that mean that I should have a 35x2=70mm pipe? If not, I'm just talking out of my ass here...:icon_conf

Well they're both the same 35-38mm ID on the comps and they'll both go to equal 50mm ID pipes

For the above reason as long as there aren't any tight radius bends I'd try and keep to the 38mm ID.

Ian the comps outer diameter is 54mm so I'll use 54mmID couplers to 54mmOD aluminum pipes. They should be about 50-51mm ID so that will be the only point of pipe variation.

 

[IJ.]

Yannis: I did the calcs based on 40 lbs/min flow and to keep good velocity I come up with 2.25" pipes, this will give you 0.32 mach through the pipes well below the critical 0.40 mach point where friction becomes an issue.

Any bigger the velocity drops and you may feel it...
(just trying to keep everything as fast as possible here so it's responsive)

Using 50mm id pipes off the compressors will drop the velocity to 0.20 mach

 

[yannis-supras]

Yannis: I did the calcs based on 40 lbs/min flow and to keep good velocity I come up with 2.25" pipes, this will give you 0.32 mach through the pipes well below the critical 0.40 mach point where friction becomes an issue.

Any bigger the velocity drops and you may feel it...
(just trying to keep everything as fast as possible here so it's responsive)

Using 50mm id pipes off the compressors will drop the velocity to 0.20 mach

So if, for instance, I have two 38-40mm ID pipes coming of each comp respectivelly and connected to one 75mm ID pipe to the i/c inlet, how does that sound? Only way I can alter that 75mm i/c inlet obviously is to plasma cut it and weld a smaller inlet.

 

[IJ.]

3" will drop velocity to 0.18 mach and this will be noticable!

I'd use a reducer coupler from 2.25">3.0" in and out of the IC the air is going to slow then accelerate through the IC no matter what you do but leading up to and out of it you want to keep it moving as fast as possible.

My IC was 3" in and out I welded my 2.5" pipes directly to it as I ran out of room but the 3" reduced nicely to 2.5" with a little persuasion

 

[yannis-supras]

Ok, so basically I need to have the two 38-40mm pipes go to one 60mm ID pipe all the way to the i/c inlet, right? Damn and I have already got all the 3" piping and expensive samco elbows and couplers.

 

[IJ.]

Well it's really up to you Yannis!

It will run fine with 3" pipes/couplers but my thoughts are it will be nicer to drive with the pipes optimised.

My car using the small pipes even at 1 psi is really responsive and is easily making 22 psi/460 rwhp without choking.

"Lag" is often too large a system volume taking time to fill or slow gas velocity through the pipes and while this may not be an issue once making boost on a road car around a windy road it can make the car a handful to drive. (esp a light car like yours! nothing nothing nothing SHIT 500hp damn sideways nothing nothing nothing repeat)

 

[Justin727]

LOL

 

[yannis-supras]

esp a light car like yours! nothing nothing nothing SHIT 500hp damn sideways nothing nothing nothing repeat

LMAO Ian :biglaugh: . But hey that's why I got the twins remeber? Less lag so this "nothing nothing nothing SHIT 500hp damn sideways nothing nothing nothing repeat" malarchy won't be happening... :rofl:

 

[yannis-supras]

Just been thinking; what if I had two independent 38mm ID pipes coming all the way from the compressors to a modified twin i/c inlet? That should give even more responsiveness, right?

 

[IJ.]

That would work Yannis!

I'd still collect them 6" before the IC though so you don't end up with odd flow through the IC.
(I was trying to keep it a bit easier to fabricate)

 

[yannis-supras]

Well I thought that if I'd dump all the gear I have already bought so as to get the ideal piping I'd may as well do some more fabricating but only if that would improve things. Don't wanna get things complicated if there's no actual benefit. So the ideal setup, regardless of complications, further custom work and any compromises would be of the two pipes coming off the compressors collected to one 2.25" then, yes? (I promise that's the last time I'm asking)

I'd still collect them 6" before the IC though so you don't end up with odd flow through the IC.
(I was trying to keep it a bit easier to fabricate)

What I had in mind was to actually have two independent i/c inlet tanks as well and thus divide the core in two from the inlet side. That way there would be no flow messing, just one smaller core per turbo.

 

[IJ.]

The twin pipe/chamber idea would work well!

 

[yannis-supras]

The twin pipe/chamber idea would work well!

I just made that promise thinking that we were coming to a conclusion with the two in one collector for the ideal setup but since you approve the twin chamber intercooler I might as well ask for some more clarifications here :naughty: ; So best setup is to keep the two 38mm pipes independent all the way to two seperate inlet i/c tanks and maintain the single i/c outlet, right?

 

[Justin727]

run 2 massive intercoolers

 

[IJ.]

Yannis: LOL yep I think that will work nicely!

Justin: LMAO !!