Finally Decided on Color - *PICS FROM PAINT BOOTH ADDED 02/08*

csnow

Matthew 6:33
Apr 5, 2005
1,176
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Palm Bay, FL
I didnt see any white around the battery area. I think that may be the lighting or the camera (cheap). I see that what looks like white in the picture though but I would have noticed that in person. I will look at it much more closely when I go by the shop. To be honest though, I got a lot of quotes and a paint job like yours with droping the craddle and everything would cost more than 4k in this area/market. Thanks for the feedback though.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Ok, photos are hard to see stuff in, that's for sure, but I'd check it out just the same. There is also no color on the left rail, where it was blocked by the steering.

I'm not trying to pick on you either. I just want you to get what you paid for. ;)

4k is about the cost of doing this in many markets. Not a smoking deal, but not raping you either. Just curious, but the labor rate there is about 38.00 hr right? What are they charging you for the paint and materials?

I agree it's more work to drop the cradle, but to have pulled a bolt, and moved the steering out of the way better would have taken less time than he's now going to spend doing it the second time. :) :)

Which is why I decided to post in your paint thread. If he cut corners in your engine bay, he'd have cut corners in painting the outside of your car..

Now, he will not. Especially if you make him do the engine bay over again. (Which is the right thing to do, or he needs to discount the job by 500.00 or more.)

Good luck, and send me a PM if you run into any problems with this painter. I work for a large Insurance company, and teach our adjusters how to deal with paint problems, and issues just like this every day of the year.

Make sure for that money, they are pulling all your trim, glass and anything attached to the outside of the car. They are doing the jambs and hatch area right? (Full color change is the common term.) They are not doing the floor however for this money I'd think. (Hatch floor, and under your seats etc.) Detail work in these often hidden areas makes or breaks the job in my opinion.

If the painter does not use a small gun in these tight areas, you will have thin, or transparent shadows. Much of this can be avoided by using a tinted primer. He either used a light gray primer on your engine bay, or he prepped your existing white, and applied color right over that. It might cause adheasion problems in the future with no self etching primer used in my opinion, especially in the engine bay where oil and debris are sure to be hiding in cracks.

Am I picky? Hell yes. But it's your money, get the most for it. :)
 

csnow

Matthew 6:33
Apr 5, 2005
1,176
0
36
Palm Bay, FL
I appreciate the feedback, I really do.

No, I agree. If it is not done right, they will redo it. I think the camera is playing tricks with the lighting because the rails are definitely painted and looked really good. They are doing the inside of the car. They are pulling the doors, fenders, hatch, molding, etc. I don’t think I will have any problems if I am not satisfied. They are the paint and body shop for the Lexus dealer here in town and have been doing their work for a long time. If anyone is picky, it would be Lexus clientele. Shop has been in business since 1984. They did point blank as me if this was a show car because show jobs start upwards of 8k. Not sure what "show" vs. "non-show" implies but seeing any white in the bay and outside of the car is not acceptable.

Chris
 

ForcedTorque

Join the 92 Owners Group
Jul 11, 2005
6,099
2
38
58
Satsuma, Alabama, United States
I am no paint expert whatsoever, and my comments are not meant to be "Nice" or "Abusive"....just plain honest.

I agree with most of what I have read here, both in comments made by others, and with the comments made by Adjuster. The car does look a million times better than it did before, and I LOVE the color.

But for the money you are paying, I would listen to the advise you are getting from Adjuster. You have to be kidding me if you say you can't see white through the holes of the battery tray. The plastic cover for that tray will cover that area, but YOU will know it is still white (a cleaner white than what you had before BTW ((possibly primer)) ).

Also for that money, I believe he should have freshened the black parts (ie. brake booster, steering parts, engine cradle, etc.

Most of what we are mentioning will all be covered once the motor is there. But, it's a lot of money to spend and not have peace of mind.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Show jobs are color sanded and buffed pretty much everywhere. (Even in the engine bay areas, and the bolt holes are welded, filled and smoothed etc.)

For 4k, you are not going to get a show job.

You should get a very good quality full color change however with no tape lines, and no areas where they missed paint, even in the engine bay.

:)

Here is the rub. If there are light areas where you can see primer, they have to skuff up the entire engine bay area again, and lay down more color, then new clear coat. Your paint will now be too thick, and could start to crack. (Craze, whatever you want to call it, but it cracks and looks like dried lake bed mud under a hot sun. Only in minature on your paint surface.)

This is why I'd have used a color tinted primer. To help hide any lack of paint with the color coat. (And you can fix errors in primer pretty easy, but it's much more work with the color or clear coats of paint.)

I'm pretty sure there is no paint under the battery tray area, and behind the steering on the drivers side (left) rail where it's indented to clear the steering shaft. There is a white patch there, and around where your battery tray is. There also might be one where the left core support baffle joins up with the left apron, but that might be a camera light trick too.

Your painter needs to use a smaller detail gun to cut into these areas.

Personally, if they are not going to strip out all the paint under the hood, I'd just have them knock 500.00 off what you owe them, with the understanding that your not getting a show job, but your also not going to pay them for shit work either. ;)

So they have two choices. Stip and refinish with a tinted primer and full coverage/hiding color, or reduce the price, and make sure the rest of the job is done right. NOT a show job, but not Maaco either. (Maaco would charge you less for the same quality of work IMNSHO.)

Dealership shops are NOT generally the highest quality. Everyone thinks they are, but they are production shops, and they push work through like everyone else. It's been my experiance that many shops who talk the loudest about how great their work is, generally have the worst quality control of anyone. Often the best shop is some guy who's been painting for 25 years, runs the shop with just a few quality techs, and they only do a few vehicles a week. They live or die on the word of mouth advertising, and their reputation is what keeps them alive. The problem is, many of these shops have gone under with the competition of the "bigger" dealerships and consolidators who push work through, and sell off mediocre work as "industry standard."

One more thing. Most new car buyers do not notice the flaws in the vehicle they purchase. And I've seen flaws in factory paint from Lexus/Toyota/Scion, BMW, Porsche, GM, Ford, Honda/Accura, Dodge/Chrysler etc. They all use similar products, and they all have similar problems from time to time. (For example, the color on the mirrors, door trim, bumpers and other plastic painted parts does not ever match up with the panels painted at the factory.. It's because the paint is not the same, and the substrate is not the same either. Also from vehicle to vehicle, there are color varients, and there are other factors such as flake bruising that affects what your eye percieves as color even with the exact same paint, from the exact same factory, on the very same day.)

Heck, I can take the exact same cup of paint, in the same gun, on the same day, and do nothing more than change the air pressure by 2psi, and change the color on a metallic. Or move the gun away from the panel a few inches, and change the color. It's all about the solvent dome, and how the pigment and flake moves and settles in a large or small droplet of paint. It's how a good painter matches up the color when "blending" from a repair panel to a OEM finish.

Basic stuff like achieving full coverage on a panel is CHILDS PLAY. And I would not let them shove the work down your throat calling it "industry standard."

It's your money. Make them earn it. ;)
 

tookwik4u89

Red T-shirt
Apr 6, 2005
2,008
0
36
Rockford, IL
Adjuster;915677 said:
Personally, if they are not going to strip out all the paint under the hood, I'd just have them knock 500.00 off what you owe them, with the understanding that your not getting a show job, but your also not going to pay them for shit work either. ;)

So they have two choices. Stip and refinish with a tinted primer and full coverage/hiding color, or reduce the price, and make sure the rest of the job is done right. NOT a show job, but not Maaco either. (Maaco would charge you less for the same quality of work IMNSHO.)

I agree, IF it's not going to be stripped, I would live with a discount of some sort. I am picky on details, but honestly, unless your relocating the battery, that will be covered...but still should get sealed better, primer can rust through, and the area by the steering shaft should have a shield bolted over it when your done and won't be seen. More so than getting a discount I would discuss until you are assured there wont be any flaws in the rest of that sort, such as the detail in door jambs, and anywhere else.

My paint job in the bay has some similar issues, but no one has ever noticed the flaws I know are there (because I did it myself). It would take you days to find the gnat that is permasealed into my clearcoat under the hood....lmao. The rest of the car I had sprayed professionally, I dont think I could have done such a nice job in the jambs and hard areas.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Don't get me wrong.

I think that color is going to be awesome on the MK3.
I think his engine bay is going to turn out very nice.
I think the color change is going to go well.

I just want him to get his money's worth out of this whole process. :)

It beats the hell out of my original 88 paint job, hands down! One of these days, I'm going to paint my car, but not for a very long time. :) I'm too picky.. LOL
 

Doward

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
4,245
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36
Alachua, FL
Yep. Looks like a slightly darker version of my stock Toyota 167 ;)

aka the same color I will be going, when I repaint my own Supra :D
 

Quin

Trans killer
Dec 5, 2006
1,989
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36
33
Columbus, IN
p915902_1.jpg


p915902_2.jpg


I circled the several spots I saw immediately. I don't know all that much about painting, but I can clearly see they didn't use a detail tool on the bolt holes, and as white and dark green are no where near close to each other in color, so will everyone else. Just my opinion.
 

tissimo

Stock is boring :(
Apr 5, 2005
4,238
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Melbourne, FL
Quin;915902 said:
I circled the several spots I saw immediately. I don't know all that much about painting, but I can clearly see they didn't use a detail tool on the bolt holes, and as white and dark green are no where near close to each other in color, so will everyone else. Just my opinion.

99% of what you see is reflection from the flash.. inside the frame rails, I'm not sure.. but doesn't matter once the bumper support goes back in though
 

csnow

Matthew 6:33
Apr 5, 2005
1,176
0
36
Palm Bay, FL
I looked at the car very closely in the paint booth. Those white spots are flash reflections. Outside of the little edge on the shock tower, there was no primer showing. I had two other people, Tissimo and another friend from work, and they all thought it looked very good. However, I will ensure that all the points brought out are checked when I go by on Monday.

Chris