FFIM technical questions.

A

arz

Arizona Performance
Nov 14, 2005
955
0
0
Mesa, AZ
www.ArizonaPerformance.com
I am considering making a FFIM, the main problem I see here is that everybody wants something different. I don't roll that way, Im all for cool custom parts, but I cant make 10 different configurations. That being said I am not opposed to making more than one intake manifold design available I just want to make sure I am providing the best possible solutions for either design.

I am curious about more than a few things. I will list them here in the first post but Im sure the list will grow and I would like to come up with a consensus of what MOST people want out of a FFIM. On top of the FFIM design I have a ton of ideas to make this a much more bolt on affair than the previous custom installs I have seen posted on many sites, everything from alternator relocation to retaining the A/C to Idle air control, to multi injectors per port, to long runner vs short, to inlet and outlet IC pluming solutions to battery relocation and fan shroud issues. Trust me I have put some serious thought into this, but would like all of your opinions.

A while back there was a thread on SF where they tested the Veilside FFIM against another custom one on a flowbench. I looked but couldn't find it. I recall the other one flowed better but I don't remember them saying conclusively why.

If you have an opinion on what you like best please state why even if its just "I like how it looks." Also I especially want your opinion if you already made a FFIM or are running one and could provide a list of wants or "wish" your manifold had ???? I encourage you to add photos of manifolds you do or don't like, Supra or non Supra related is also fine.

Here are a few questions to start it off.

Short runner, or long runner?

Plenum volume?

Throttle body diameter?

I know people seem to like the Q45 throttle body, are there any others?

Is the stock lower intake manifold diameter big (diameter) enough?

Any opinion on what the runner length SHOULD BE?

would you like extra injector ports?

Would you like provisions for IAC?

Would you like provisions for EGR?

Would you like provisions for throttle body heater? (ie: coolant running through it).

I am sure this has been done before but Im anxious to hear what everyone thinks/wants.
 
T

turbodriz

mk3 onwer
Feb 25, 2006
471
0
0
newyork....N.c
I know that the new search on supramania as become a serious pain but I am pretty sure if you go back a couple of pages here in the techninal area you'll see that this topic was covered in the detail that you are looking for. Alot of the questions you brought up have been answered in that thread. I wish I had a thread name but like I said the new search sucks.
 
Rennat

Rennat

5psi...? haha
Dec 6, 2005
2,844
0
0
Tracy, CA
www.myspace.com
personally, i want the long runner, but i want it to use a stock TB, and have all of the OEM "crap" work on it. iac... egr... ect.


i personally really like the newest one sethron made, with the big elbow coming off of the manifold towards the battery, it looks nice, and it seems like it would help out the flow in the plenum.
 
GrimJack

GrimJack

Administrator
Dec 31, 1969
12,377
3
38
56
Richmond, BC, Canada
idriders.com
The stock bits EGR / ISC needs to work so that all of us in smog check land can pass emissions testing.

I want something with a long runner, so that the runners are welded to the bottom of the plenum, down out of sight.

Throttle bodies - meh, whatever will work with a stock ECU, I guess.

And of course, I want to keep my AC and alternator. I'm more than willing to move my battery to the trunk, though.
 
Poodles

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
0
0
43
Fort Worth, TX
The problem is I don't think there is a perfect FFIM design for msot people.

I would want to retain all the factory sensors/functions, work with the stock ECU, and not have to move anything. I know of one way that's possible, but it requires a hard bend off the throttle body to go down to an IC.

Not to mention most people aren't going to run it if it's ugly. Personally, I could care less if it's a full bolt on affair and I could keep cruise control!
 
Poodles

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
0
0
43
Fort Worth, TX
IJ has cruise, but it appears the JDM cars use an actuator at the gas pedal. I have no idea if it's readily available or if the computer works with both actuators, ect...
 
K

Kristian_Wraae

Member
May 18, 2007
704
0
16
53
Aarhus
You might want to look at what is available for the MKIV and then solve the problem with relocation of generator and A/C. It can be done by lowering both the A/C pump and the generator.

If you design a relocation bracket that will drop the generator and retain the A/C with a short runner you could use the same bracket with a short and a long runner.

Regarding plenum volume there have been threads about it. But again copying what is available for the 2JZ might not be that far off.
 
A

arz

Arizona Performance
Nov 14, 2005
955
0
0
Mesa, AZ
www.ArizonaPerformance.com
Kristian_Wraae;1033834 said:
You might want to look at what is available for the MKIV and then solve the problem with relocation of generator and A/C. It can be done by lowering both the A/C pump and the generator.

If you design a relocation bracket that will drop the generator and retain the A/C with a short runner you could use the same bracket with a short and a long runner.
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head, thats exactly what I was thinking. But you should see what Im thinking.

Kristian_Wraae;1033834 said:
Regarding plenum volume there have been threads about it. But again copying what is available for the 2JZ might not be that far off.
Click to expand...
Again, you are right on target.
 
IwantMKIII

IwantMKIII

WVU MAEngineering
Jun 12, 2007
2,477
0
0
Perkasie, PA
as most people say, ISC TPS, all that stock stuff should fit. Larger throttle body option, Q45. Most important to me though is ability to retain A/C. A lot of people live in a lot of different kinds of environments and for many of us, removing AC is just not something we want to do when summer rolls around.
 
starscream5000

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Aug 23, 2006
6,359
0
36
Hot and Humid, KY
Another TB to think about, Mustang TB's. They have one flange to fit several sizes that someone would want. They are cheaper than a Q45, come with new TPS, and are super easy to find and don't have to worry if the TB you are getting is going to be 80mm or 90mm because you know what size you'll get when you order it, because you chose the size! ;)
 
K

Kristian_Wraae

Member
May 18, 2007
704
0
16
53
Aarhus
The only problem with the mustang is the incompatibility of the TPS with the stock ECU. But knowing the CNC skills of Arz it might be a small problem to make an adapter to fit the original TPS to the Mustang throttle body.

So if you designed a short runner that will clear the brake booster on LHD cars, with provisions for all stock sensors and supplied with block off plates for all of them including EGR and with a bracket that retains A/C by lowering both A/C and generator it would be feasable to make an intercooler kit with pre bent piping to fit the FFIM. That would make it a bolt in application. Then you only need to figur out the throttle/cruise control and kick down cables.

And then top it off with your amazing cam covers.....:naughty:
 
F

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
5,225
16
38
50
Twin Cities, Minnesot-ah
Kristian_Wraae;1034425 said:
The only problem with the mustang is the incompatibility of the TPS with the stock ECU. But knowing the CNC skills of Arz it might be a small problem to make an adapter to fit the original TPS to the Mustang throttle body.

So if you designed a short runner that will clear the brake booster on LHD cars, with provisions for all stock sensors and supplied with block off plates for all of them including EGR and with a bracket that retains A/C by lowering both A/C and generator it would be feasable to make an intercooler kit with pre bent piping to fit the FFIM. That would make it a bolt in application. Then you only need to figur out the throttle/cruise control and kick down cables.

And then top it off with your amazing cam covers.....:naughty:
Click to expand...

what?

From an basic electronics standpoint. A TPS is nothing more than a potenitometer. Two inputs (0v and 5v) and one outputs (Signal).

The difference between the 7m based TPS and every other run of the mil TPS is the inclusion of the IDL "switch" that is closed during 0% throttle deflection. Guess what, there is your answer in quotations on how to address the IDL missing ;)

Otherwise most TPS, amazingly, have the same resistance value as they are all based on a +5VDC reference.
 
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