Nick M said:
Nick is making another very good point. This mentality is one I have a very hard time understanding...why would you remove parts & vac lines that are an integral part of an EFI engine? You're just begging for problems.
Eliminating Oil Cooler for Good?
- Thread starter MPF_Supra
- Start date
Nick is making another very good point. This mentality is one I have a very hard time understanding...why would you remove parts & vac lines that are an integral part of an EFI engine? You're just begging for problems.
uhhh...:3d_frown: And then it will be Toyota's fault that you get rod-knock, or seized bearings, right?
jimi87-t said:
Nah, Toyota isn't worried about it, the warranty has probably been expired for +15 years now
.
dosnt the oil pressure have to hit like 40 before the oil even passes through? or was it under 40?
RacerXJ220 said:
And I suppose that makes it ok huh?
I do believe Forrest Gump made a pretty dead on quote about that thought process in the movie
loki2043 said:
Yep...and at what rpm does that occur at?
Why do you think Adjuster, IJ, and a host of other guys put so much thought, time, and $$$ into their oil systems...specifically getting it to the cooler by changing over to a full-flow, thermostat controlled system.
You know what, all of you guys can yank the oil coolers off if you want to...while your at it, use a 20W-50 so it will handle the heat. And yank the coolant thermostat out so coolant will flow full time. That should take care of your motor just fine. :runaway:
heh... before my build i hit right under 40 psi tops when engine was warm. funny, the oil only got cooled on cold start.ill be switching over soon to a much better cooling system for sure
jdub said:And I suppose that makes it ok huh?
I do believe Forrest Gump made a pretty dead on quote about that thought process in the movie
Yep...and at what rpm does that occur at?
Why do you think Adjuster, IJ, and a host of other guys put so much thought, time, and $$$ into their oil systems...specifically getting it to the cooler by changing over to a full-flow, thermostat controlled system.
You know what, all of you guys can yank the oil coolers off if you want to...while your at it, use a 20W-50 so it will handle the heat. And yank the coolant thermostat out so coolant will flow full time. That should take care of your motor just fine. :runaway:
better yet! go to jiffy lube and give the guy 2 bucks for all of the used oil for the day, now you got enough oil for at least 5 oil changes! wow!
Removing the oil cooler will:
shorten the life of your oil
remove a secondary cooling system from your engine
remove a key component in maintain a stable oil viscosity.
__________________________________________________
As for shortening the life of your oil, it may not be such a big deal if you always change you oil every 2500/3000 miles. But it doesn't change the fact that as the oils life shortens so does it's ability to protect your engine.
Can you run with a hampered cooling system. Yes, you could. You could also run with a smaller antifreeze radiator, say one out of a Honda. But the bigger radiator is nice to have when you need it. Same with the ability of the oil to cool itself. It' nice to have a robust system to keep temps in check. Most people don't realize it but the oil system deals with a lot of the engine heat from the stand point of a cooling system. In addition to dealing with heat given off from the metal parts due to internal combustion, the oil also has to remove any heat generated by friction. So oil is doing double duty, and keeping it cool is very important, especially in a turbocharged application.
Can you run an oil with an unstable viscosity, yes, however it detrimental to the longevity of an engine. Bearing tolerances were designed with a specific viscosity in mind, randomly varying in and out of the ideal viscosity render the set tolerances pointless as they won't protect as they should.
It is amazing me that people are even putting up a defense of not cooling your oil. Cooling your oil has principles rooted in the most basic automotive maintenance procedures.
shorten the life of your oil
remove a secondary cooling system from your engine
remove a key component in maintain a stable oil viscosity.
__________________________________________________
As for shortening the life of your oil, it may not be such a big deal if you always change you oil every 2500/3000 miles. But it doesn't change the fact that as the oils life shortens so does it's ability to protect your engine.
Can you run with a hampered cooling system. Yes, you could. You could also run with a smaller antifreeze radiator, say one out of a Honda. But the bigger radiator is nice to have when you need it. Same with the ability of the oil to cool itself. It' nice to have a robust system to keep temps in check. Most people don't realize it but the oil system deals with a lot of the engine heat from the stand point of a cooling system. In addition to dealing with heat given off from the metal parts due to internal combustion, the oil also has to remove any heat generated by friction. So oil is doing double duty, and keeping it cool is very important, especially in a turbocharged application.
Can you run an oil with an unstable viscosity, yes, however it detrimental to the longevity of an engine. Bearing tolerances were designed with a specific viscosity in mind, randomly varying in and out of the ideal viscosity render the set tolerances pointless as they won't protect as they should.
It is amazing me that people are even putting up a defense of not cooling your oil. Cooling your oil has principles rooted in the most basic automotive maintenance procedures.
Nick M said:
2543arvin said:
sorry it was early this morning and I just didnt see the humor in it... I was like, "please tell me that this man is not serious". haha sorry if I offended you or anyone.
but now it makes sense. hahaha:biglaugh:
Nick is never (rarely) wrong, so if you think something he says is off the wall then he's probably being sarcastic/ironic/satiric. :icon_razz
well I looked at his post counts and thought that if he has been around that long he would know something : ) haha it was a good laugh
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Here is an interesting note, and why I used the oil cooler from a turbo charged RX7 from the 80's...
The Wankle motor has few moving parts, but those that do move, have some interesting oil needs. The "rotor" is a 3 sided piston that spins around in a elipical orbit. This creates quite a bit of friction, and being so large, it has to deal with lots of heat from combustion too. The only way to get the heat out of a wankle is via the case that surrounds the rotors, or to use oil to transfer the heat out of the rotors. (What Mazda did to solve the problem, especially since there is quite a bit more heat on a turbocharged rotary than the NA versions of similar performance.)
On the TurboII engine, they installed a HUGE radiator style tube and tank, welded up aluminum oil cooler with a built in thermostat. (Awesome!)
On the lesser wankles, they have water cooled oil coolers that work pretty well too however.
My point is, OIL is not just a lubricant. It is also a very important way to transfer excess heat out of the motor.
I'm sure Jdub can go on about this subject for hours, but oil needs to operate in a certain range of tempature to be most effective.
Too hot, and you break down the oil, and it becomes too thin, oxidized and burns off leaving deposits etc.
Too cold, and it is hard to pump, retains water and that can cause problems as well.
So, you want your oil cool, but not cold. (Above 180f is good, and below 250f max is what I've been told, but I might be wrong.)
The T-stat on the Rx7 cooler opens up at 180. Actually tested it in a hot sonic parts cleaner.. works great.
I have done a less scientific test awhile back. It was very cold day, about 10f. I had driven for a few hours, and just to see if the cooler was doing anything at this very cold air temp, checked the end tanks on the cooler.. No supprise, the oil fitting side was too warm to touch for more than a second, but the other side, where oil should not have been flowing much on a day like that, was only slightly warm... Perfect in my opinion.
I have also checked it on a hot day, in traffic with the AC going, and the tanks are both super hot. (I do not have a oil temp gauge, but I'm sure it is cooler than the stock setup would be, but don't know how much cooler... but since both are hot, the thermostat is open, and flowing oil throughout the cooler v/s bypassing it.)
OK, so what's my point?
DO NOT DITCH THE COOLER.
Get a bigger one, but if you do, get a thermostat for sure. (Unless you live in weather that is never colder than say 75f, and I've seen snow in Mexico, so just living in the South does not mean you will never see cold temps.)
Here is where I mounted mine. (The RX7 cooler is tig welded at very small points via the bracket on the end tanks to my FMIC end tanks. About 1square inch of surface area at the most for thermal transfer, so minimal in my opinion, and it made mounting the oil cooler and FMIC easy, so it's worth it.) The oil cooler is in the airflow from the upper grille, and the FMIC is in the lower grille air flow. Note the in and out fittings on the right side end tank,a nd the nut that holds the thermostat in place on the tank as well. A custom center support is needed for this series of mods. (I bought mine for 30.00 off Ebay, and then coated it with thermal dispersant. It was pretty corroded, but so far, has not been a problem. I have seen cleaner ones for about the same price. Make sure you clean it out very well BEFORE you run this into your engine. Any crap in a used oil cooler will go straight into your bearings.)
The Wankle motor has few moving parts, but those that do move, have some interesting oil needs. The "rotor" is a 3 sided piston that spins around in a elipical orbit. This creates quite a bit of friction, and being so large, it has to deal with lots of heat from combustion too. The only way to get the heat out of a wankle is via the case that surrounds the rotors, or to use oil to transfer the heat out of the rotors. (What Mazda did to solve the problem, especially since there is quite a bit more heat on a turbocharged rotary than the NA versions of similar performance.)
On the TurboII engine, they installed a HUGE radiator style tube and tank, welded up aluminum oil cooler with a built in thermostat. (Awesome!)
On the lesser wankles, they have water cooled oil coolers that work pretty well too however.
My point is, OIL is not just a lubricant. It is also a very important way to transfer excess heat out of the motor.
I'm sure Jdub can go on about this subject for hours, but oil needs to operate in a certain range of tempature to be most effective.
Too hot, and you break down the oil, and it becomes too thin, oxidized and burns off leaving deposits etc.
Too cold, and it is hard to pump, retains water and that can cause problems as well.
So, you want your oil cool, but not cold. (Above 180f is good, and below 250f max is what I've been told, but I might be wrong.)
The T-stat on the Rx7 cooler opens up at 180. Actually tested it in a hot sonic parts cleaner.. works great.
I have done a less scientific test awhile back. It was very cold day, about 10f. I had driven for a few hours, and just to see if the cooler was doing anything at this very cold air temp, checked the end tanks on the cooler.. No supprise, the oil fitting side was too warm to touch for more than a second, but the other side, where oil should not have been flowing much on a day like that, was only slightly warm... Perfect in my opinion.
I have also checked it on a hot day, in traffic with the AC going, and the tanks are both super hot. (I do not have a oil temp gauge, but I'm sure it is cooler than the stock setup would be, but don't know how much cooler... but since both are hot, the thermostat is open, and flowing oil throughout the cooler v/s bypassing it.)
OK, so what's my point?
DO NOT DITCH THE COOLER.
Get a bigger one, but if you do, get a thermostat for sure. (Unless you live in weather that is never colder than say 75f, and I've seen snow in Mexico, so just living in the South does not mean you will never see cold temps.)
Here is where I mounted mine. (The RX7 cooler is tig welded at very small points via the bracket on the end tanks to my FMIC end tanks. About 1square inch of surface area at the most for thermal transfer, so minimal in my opinion, and it made mounting the oil cooler and FMIC easy, so it's worth it.) The oil cooler is in the airflow from the upper grille, and the FMIC is in the lower grille air flow. Note the in and out fittings on the right side end tank,a nd the nut that holds the thermostat in place on the tank as well. A custom center support is needed for this series of mods. (I bought mine for 30.00 off Ebay, and then coated it with thermal dispersant. It was pretty corroded, but so far, has not been a problem. I have seen cleaner ones for about the same price. Make sure you clean it out very well BEFORE you run this into your engine. Any crap in a used oil cooler will go straight into your bearings.)
Very interesting topic. I think that some of these post should be transfered to "How to cure 7m oil issues" topic
^ LOL. Just as a good point of reference here to show some people on here how important the oil is as far as cooling the engine goes... Let's have a show of hands for those of use who would look at the oil temp gauge (if you installed it) more often than the water temp gauge .
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
.:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: