dugums build - need a ton of help!!!

[dugums]

Alright, Brian came over again, and after a whole day of work, the head is finally off!

Even though the car had no symptoms of a BHG, the gasket was in pretty bad shape. There seemed to be some damage, so I am really happy you guys advised me to do this as preventative maintenance.

Hopefully I can find a good shop here, as I will have them machine the head and do a valve job.

It looks like the turbo is leaking a little, so I am going to go ahead and order the new turbo now. I was planning on waiting, but what the heck...

I really need to thank Brian again, because I know I would have given up on this project without his help -- so, THANK YOU!!!

 

[dugums]

Head is at the machine shop.

Turbo is ready to go out to Driftmotion.

I'd really like to get some input on what sort of electronics (piggyback or otherwise) I should run as well as if I need to make any other supporting upgrades. I want to make sure I have the proper equipment to keep the car running well!

Most people have told me I will be fine on stock injectors if my goal is 350hp. Would going to 550's give me any measure of safety?

Do I need to do a fuel pump either way, or only if I make the injector change? I would rather go ahead and do injectors now if it is ever going to happen as they are real easy to get to.

As far as suggestions on getting more air, should I just skip the Lex AFM and go straight to something like a Maft Pro?

Any suggestions are welcome as it seems reading up on this stuff only confuses me more. Keep in mind I am looking for the best way to do this RIGHT. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks if it is better for the vehicle!

 

[dugums]

Back to the head gasket issue -

I found this: http://suprasonic.org/HKS/hksgaskets.html

Now, I have been out of the supra game for a while, but I know that when I owned my others, Reg was pretty much the authority on all things supra.

This article seems to insinuate that if you properly check the deck for flatness, a MHG will seal correctly without machine work. He recommends lapping, but does not imply that it is required. Moreover, he seems to state that other than at a few select shops, the machining process may make the seal harder to obtain. Now, I understand that finding a great race shop who can obtain perfect results on the head and the block is OPTIMUM, but, based on this article, I no longer know if it is an absolute necessity.

I don't mean to start this up again, but if I am likely to get a good seal on the MHG, I am apt to go that direction.

I guess I will clean up the block tomorrow and check it out. If it looks good, maybe call the machine shop and have them lap it as well.

The main question I am searching to answer is: Is it better to go with a composite head gasket simply to avoid the risk of having a MHG not seal properly? And, what are the chances of it not sealing properly?

Either way, an interesting read.

 

[dugums]

On a lighter note, I find it very funny that googling almost anything about a head gasket, top results come back to supras....:3d_frown:

 

[starscream5000]

If you think you'll never want to go with anything more than 350 HP, then the stock 440 injectors are fine, but send them off to be flow tested and cleaned. If you think you'll be having some growing pains later on, better go with the 550's, you'll also want to send them off to be flow tested. Make damn sure that if you buy bigger injectors, to get them from a licecensed vendor of the brand injectors you are wanting, or straight from the company themselves. Do NOT buy injectors off of ebay unless you have SOLID proof that the vendor is licecensed and selling the real deal. There are some people on here who have been burned from ebay sellers selling them PTE, RC, etc. injectors under the impression that they are the real thing, including the flow sheets for the injectors like the real ones do. Funny thing is, the flow sheet has always come up missing, and when the injectors are shipped off, they aren't within 1% of each other like the real ones are.

As far as piggy backs, like I said, if you think you're going to go bigger in the future, get a lex or a MAFT Pro, your choice, they both work, but the MAFT Pro will give you a great tune once you study up on how to use it and get all the bugs out of it.

Head gaskets. Again, 350 HP is fine for a composite HG, just make sure that the head and block are both flat, spray some Permatex brake quiet on the HG to ensure an even better seal with the composite gasket. People have safely made over 400 HP on the stock gasket. Do I recommend you pushing it to that? NO

If you think you'll be going over 350 in the future, might as well pony up on the MHG and PROPER machine work to ensure the RA spec for the head AND block are both met for whichever brand MHG you choose. Each brand has different RA requirements, but an RA of 15 or less will work on any one of them . IIRC the lowest requirement from any is either 20 or 25 microns.

 

[dugums]

Hey, thanks for the response.

I was thinking about going with the maft pro. Even if it is a tad overkill, it seems like if I go with 550's and Lex AFM I will end up running a bit rich. While that is safe, I want my car to run as nicely as possible. I might as well do these things sooner rather than later, so I can take advantage of the bigger trim turbo.

Can I put in injectors on their own for now? (still running factory fuel pump), or do I need to upgrade the pump and add an AFPR for the injectors to work properly.

I wouldn't mind putting in the injectors, and then making sure everything is running properly after my HG job (just for a couple short test drives). Then I could work on the other items.

 

[starscream5000]

You will need the AFPR to lower the pressure to keep you from running too rich on larger injectors. It's a good idea to upgrade the fuel pump while you're at it too.

FTR: RC injectors are 550cc's and PTE's are, I think, 580cc's.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Hey Doug,

Here are my thoughts on your build:

HG: If you're not going to at least lap the block, I would stick to a stock HG. If you want to use a MHG without prepping the block, you have to be ready to do it all over again if it leaks. For your power goals, I would stick to a stock HG.

Lexus AFM, Maft-Pro, 550s: I'd skip them all for now. If you don't do it right, the car won't run well and you'll have problems passing emissions too. Like starscream suggested, I'd just get the stock ones cleaned and flow tested.

Head: I'd skip any port/polish job unless you're doing it yourself or having the shop do a very mild one. Stock head is more than good enough for your goals. I'd take a look into having all the valve seals replaced and maybe a valve job if needed.

I don't know if I missed it, but use ARP head bolts and not studs. You don't need studs for what you're shooting for. Plus, I don't think you can pull the head off if you use studs without tilting the motor.

FCD: You can leave it on, but if you don't already have them, get an aftermarket boost gauge and some sort of boost controller.

Since the car's your daily driver, don't shoot for the moon right now unless you're willing to spend the time and the money to do it right. Just get the bare minimum done and enjoy the car. I think too many people (including myself) end up with far too lofty goals/expectations and end up getting dis-heartened if things don't go quite right and you end up with a lot of abandoned projects.

 

[dugums]

I don't mind spending extra money to make it run right, even if what I end up buying is overkill.

I think I will get the injectors cleaned and flow-tested, as it would be very easy to do right now.

I don't like the idea of doing the bare minimum. I am putting a 57 trim on the car, and am certainly not going to use it to its full potential. For my power goals, it seems that stock injectors are fine and the composite head gasket is fine.

I do want to lose the FCD, I just don't like them. I already have a boost controller.

I guess maybe I should just proceed with those few little mods and add an air fuel gauge to see how it's doing. If there are issues, I can move on from there.

I am pretty nice to my vehicles, seldom do I go WOT from a standstill, and I probably won't even dyno it. I just know from my past supras that 325-350 rwhp is what feels right to me.

So, any suggestions to what I can do to monitor (and possibly adjust) air/fuel mix? Are there any other things I should be monitoring to keep everything as safe as possible?

 

[starscream5000]

Just make sure it's a wideband and not the cheapo light show narrowband .

 

[dugums]

Just make sure it's a wideband and not the cheapo light show narrowband .

I'm definitely open to specific suggestions. Sorry to be such a noob about it, but there is just so much information, I can't really figure out what would be suitable for my needs.

 

[starscream5000]

You want a wideband that includes a specific gauge telling you what your Air/Fuel ratios are. There are plenty of brands out there, Inovative, AEM, NGK, PLX (I think that's one), etc. Some don't come with gagues (meant to be plugged into a standalone or MAFT-Pro) and some do. Some gauges are rectangular, and some fit into a pillar pod. Your choice, any one with a gauge is going to be at least $200.00

 

[bountykilla0118]

You aim/goal is soooooo low!! People have made around 300hp with the stock setup ..... 350hp ?? All you need is that at 57trim, 550's and a piggy back (Maft-Pro, SAFC, etc.)

1) Lex AFM, 550 injectors and SAFC combo has made some big hp numbers (Its also the most simple of them all)

2) Maft-Pro can come with all the stuff you will ever need if you stay below 600hp

 

[dugums]

You aim/goal is soooooo low!! People have made around 300hp with the stock setup ..... 350hp ?? All you need is that at 57trim, 550's and a piggy back (Maft-Pro, SAFC, etc.)

1) Lex AFM, 550 injectors and SAFC combo has made some big hp numbers (Its also the most simple of them all)

2) Maft-Pro can come with all the stuff you will ever need if you stay below 600hp

Well, I realize the goal is low, but there is no reason for me to go overboard. This is not going to be a track car, and I will barely ever get to really push it.

I am playing around with the idea of rebuilding the bottom end and getting the block machined now. If that becomes a reality, I will certainly go with a MHG and aim a tad higher. If I really think about it though, any more HP would just be for show. As my plan is to not subject the vehicle to the rigors of racing or even stressing it on a dyno, it is much more important for me to have a vehicle that runs nicely.

 

[bountykilla0118]

I understand but ...... boost ...... is a drug like no other ffwall:

 

[dugums]

I understand but ...... boost ...... is a drug like no other ffwall:

Lol, I know...

What do you guys think of the Neo?

 

[bountykilla0118]

its just a normal SAFC with a pretty light display ..... i personally run the SAFC

 

[dugums]

its just a normal SAFC with a pretty light display ..... i personally run the SAFC

I like the pretty lights....

So, is it pretty easy to wire this up, or do I need professional assistance?

As I understand it, this will allow me to monitor AND alter the Air/Fuel ratio, correct? P n P, or?

 

[bountykilla0118]

I installed my used SAFC using the diagram off their website .... I dont think it can monitor but you can adjust the fuel. Get a wideband to monitor

 

[dugums]

Alright, thanks for the tips. I am feeling a bit more confident now about what I need to do.

On another note, somebody mentioned I was going to have some trouble using the ARP studs with the block in the car.

Is this right? How difficult is it to get the motor tilted far enough to clear the firewall with the back of the head.

Should I switch to bolts, and if so, what sort of drawbacks are there?

Thanks as always for the input!