Dual Ball Bearing CT-26?

[MDCmotorsports]

The 60 trim has a little larger islands, thats all. (maybe a few more lbs of air)

As for the reason why a ct shaft snaps - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS SIZE. The ct26 shaft (nose) is actually bigger than a standard to4e shaft.

The problem comes with putting a large wheel in a tiny compressor housing. When it surges, it (the shaft) snaps.

You really don't see this much in the garrett housings due to the fact a to4e / to4s style housing with a 57 trim is about twice the size of a ct26 compressor housing.

 

[mc_h]

I still really, don't see much of any benefit to a BB CT26. Boost comes on early enough with a stock CT as it is, as people have already said. How many supra owners race from a dig(for all intents and purposes, the only time it will be beneficial)? Yea...not many - And most that try are pulling 2.4 60ft's not because the turbo spools too quickly or to slowly, but because they can't hook in the first place(driving skills aside, which is another problem of it's own) - There's not much of a market for such a product even if it didn't have issues.

 

[Rennat]

tekdeus - who made the turbo???

 

[bigaaron]

The spool difference with ball bearing and non ball bearing turbos is a lot less them most people think. It's not like ball bearings suddenly makes your ct26 into a gt35r. It doesn't build boost earlier, the boost just climbs a little bit faster. You are talking maybe 200rpm difference and that is only on the top end. I haven't seen dyno charts from a ct26 bb, but I have seen several from aftermarket turbos where they dyno'd a non bb turbo, took it off and dyno'd with the exact same size bb turbo, and the difference was minimal. Plus, it's a lot less expensive to service a non bb turbo.

 

[mc_h]

The spool difference with ball bearing and non ball bearing turbos is a lot less them most people think. It's not like ball bearings suddenly makes your ct26 into a gt35r. It doesn't build boost earlier, the boost just climbs a little bit faster. You are talking maybe 200rpm difference and that is only on the top end. I haven't seen dyno charts from a ct26 bb, but I have seen several from aftermarket turbos where they dyno'd a non bb turbo, took it off and dyno'd with the exact same size bb turbo, and the difference was minimal. Plus, it's a lot less expensive to service a non bb turbo.

Generally speaking, ball bearing turbos aren't even rebuildable per se...Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[tekdeus]

tekdeus - who made the turbo???

Not sure, it came with the car.

 

[Rennat]

You can rebuild BB turbos.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48898

But MDC is closing there turbo department from what he told me...

Aaron i see your point, i think i am trying to get something out of the ct-26 that i'll never receive... it's probably easier to just buy a ball bearing garrett... or something.
but you woudlnt happen to have a link to those dyno graphs you mention do you??
and by chance, do you remember on what kind of car?

 

[mc_h]

You can rebuild BB turbos.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48898

But MDC is closing there turbo department from what he told me...

Aaron i see your point, i think i am trying to get something out of the ct-26 that i'll never receive... it's probably easier to just buy a ball bearing garrett... or something.
but you woudlnt happen to have a link to those dyno graphs you mention do you??
and by chance, do you remember on what kind of car?

Interesting....

As for your scenario: You go with a BB garrett, you're looking at alot more $$ overall for the setup and you will NOT have as quick spool as you will with a 60-1 CT26...Over 400whp with practically stock spool, and you don't need a single thing to bolt it up - Can't go wrong...If it's built properly, it'll last.

 

[Rennat]

you realize theres more than ONE turbo from garrett right? lol

If i ever go above and beyond 400HP, then i'll get a DBB aftermarket turbo...
but for sub-400HP levels. the 57trim sounds perfect for me.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/products/turbochargers.html
And "quick spool" is dependent on how much boost you are running...
10psi on a 57trim is NOT equal to 10psi from a GT35R or something...

and a DBB turbo is only about 300-600more than a 57trim CT (depending on size)
57>60

 

[tekdeus]

10psi on a 57trim is NOT equal to 10psi from a GT35R or something...

Why? It is the same pressure, which is resistance to flow, so how could more air flow at the same psi?

 

[OneJoeZee]

Why? It is the same pressure, which is resistance to flow, so how could more air flow at the same psi?

Are you trying to say 10psi on a CT26 would be the same airflow as 10psi on a T78?

 

[Ma70.Ent]

Why? It is the same pressure, which is resistance to flow, so how could more air flow at the same psi?

Here's some nice stuff for you

The funny thing about theory.

It's often trumped by the real world results.

IE: The same pressure, at the same RPM, but the higher flow turbo on the same engine makes more REAL power. (Not theory power mind you, but real power.)

I'm sure it has to do with all kinds of technical reasons, but the bottem line is, IJ is right.

18psi on a CT26 is nothing like 18psi on a T04Z. (As an example.)

The CT is mainly blowing very hot air at that pressure, flow is minimal over say 15psi... But the larger turbo is just starting to get busy, and it's flow rate at the same pressure blows the smaller turbo out of the water.

Think water hose.

You put your thumb over the outlet, and the pressure goes up... Water squirts out.. And you can hold "18psi" of water in there all day long, but less water is coming out...

Now, try that on a fire hydrant supplied 3" hose v/s the 3/4" garden hose... At 18psi, the fire hose will kick you on your ass, and can knock people down...

So, it's not just about pressure, but about flow.

Boost is only made when there's a restriction to flow......

Open a valve and boost will drop, in this time available a larger Turbo can supply more Volume and the end result if you add the correct amount of fuel and manage to light it off at the correct time is more power.

So YES 10 psi is 10 psi but that's NOT the full story or we'd all still be on a CT26 as it can make 10 psi....

As I said earlier it's all about Volume supplied at 10 Psi.

 

[miekedmr]

really, assuming the intake and head and all the flow restrictions are the same, it's as simple as:
pressure * air density = oxygen delivered
the difference between two different turbos at a given pressure (all else being equal) is their efficiency at that pressure. People tend to run ct26s past their efficiency range, so they blow hot (LESS DENSE) air and don't make the same power as a larger turbo suited to that pressure/flow. (turbo efficiency is a function of both pressure and flow, as you can see on a compressor map)

 

[mc_h]

you realize theres more than ONE turbo from garrett right? lol

If i ever go above and beyond 400HP, then i'll get a DBB aftermarket turbo...
but for sub-400HP levels. the 57trim sounds perfect for me.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/products/turbochargers.html
And "quick spool" is dependent on how much boost you are running...
10psi on a 57trim is NOT equal to 10psi from a GT35R or something...

and a DBB turbo is only about 300-600more than a 57trim CT (depending on size)
57>60

Of course I know there's more than one turbo from garret. Almost all the turbos out there garret one way or another, including the 67mm I have on my other car. I'm not stupid...

As I said, 400whp and you're WELL within the reliability limits of an upgraded CT. There's guys up here doing 450whp on upgraded CT's.
10psi on a 60-1 CT will come on alot quicker than 10psi on a gt35. Period...You're talking about throttle response, then talking about going with a big single instead of utilizing the quickest spooling option you have available to you that will also meet your power goals...Contradictory, just a bit.

A BB turbo might only be say, 500 more than an upgraded CT but then you have to worry about...v-band downpipe, modified IC piping, oil lines, exh manifold, ext. wastegate, different intake pipe blah blah..It's not 500 more. It's like 1500-2000 more.

 

[Rennat]

Of course I know there's more than one turbo from garret. Almost all the turbos out there garret one way or another, including the 67mm I have on my other car. I'm not stupid...

As I said, 400whp and you're WELL within the reliability limits of an upgraded CT. There's guys up here doing 450whp on upgraded CT's.
10psi on a 60-1 CT will come on alot quicker than 10psi on a gt35. Period...You're talking about throttle response, then talking about going with a big single instead of utilizing the quickest spooling option you have available to you that will also meet your power goals...Contradictory, just a bit.

A BB turbo might only be say, 500 more than an upgraded CT but then you have to worry about...v-band downpipe, modified IC piping, oil lines, exh manifold, ext. wastegate, different intake pipe blah blah..It's not 500 more. It's like 1500-2000 more.

Its only money :biglaugh:
And all in the name of more power, so its ok.

 

[1-2clutch-u]

ok so how can i get this turbo? really?

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Just buy a 57 trim upgrade with a non clip or a 5 deg clipped turbine from Jtamulis or Driftmotion.

 

[Rennat]

I thought clipping was bad as you cant get each one exactly the same, so it throws off the balance just a little bit?

I'm planning on a 57trim down the road. Just need the sell my rims and were good! haha

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Each unit won't be EXACTLY the same, but dam close.

If a unit is VSR balanced, it won't matter if its not "exactly" clipped.

 

[1-2clutch-u]

ok so with a clipped turbo I will have faster spool.