Did you evolve?

[Nick M]

I guess I win already. I said no religion. What have we observed? We have observed in the fossil record that life from the begining is complex, and there isn't a record of transition fossils between species. Somebody show otherwise.

The only problem with this is Creationisim cannot stand in the scientific arena as a scientific hypothesis even if you do stick the word "science" into the name.

You made mutliple non provable statements, only opinions, trying to validate your last statement. It is still an opinion. Evolution is as phony as global warming.

They find minor (and sometimes major) flaws in his work and point them out to discredit him. They attack what they percieve as "sacred" to the scientific community

Nice misdirection. There is no attack on him. Only on his non proven hypothesis. Minor? That is flat out funny. I pointed out major flaws. In fact, how everything he stated would be based on the fossil record we planned to dig in the next 100 years, and in fact found the opposite of what would be needed. Nice of you to not refute one thing, but go to faith, religion, and God.


Originally Posted by Paul Chien(Chairman, Biology Departmnet, University of San Francisco)"
A simple way of putting it is that currently we have about 38 phlya of different groups of animals, but the total number of phyla discovered dring that period of time adds up to over 50 phyla. That means there are more pyla in the very very begining, where we found the first fossils, than exist now. Stephen J Gould has refrenced this as the reverse cone of diversity. The theory of evolution implies that things get more complex and get more and more diverse from one single origin. But the whole thing turns out to be reversed-we have more diverse groups inthe very beginning, and in fact more of them die off over time and we have less now.

Refute the findings.

Every time they find a modern scientist who differs with Darwin or conflicts with something said earlier, they think they have found some sort of victory or have scored some sort of point on Darwin and/or science. Science is constantly changing, evolving if you will. Science doesn't fear questions, and science doesn't fear change, only faith does.

I accept your surrender. I don't fear questions or research. Do not misrepresent my position.

 

[Nick M]

Notice how I provided massive evidence of a fossil record indicating that life has been complex and completely formed from the begining, and the response doesn't chanllenge anything I wrote. Instead the response goes off on tangents and redirections due to inside knowing defeat is at hand.

Nitpicking? You have to be shitting me.

I have not yet begun to fight. I will show all the PROVEN HOAXES of evolutionism, If people are willing to have an open mind. The list is long. Things like pigs teeth, monkey knees miles away from a skelton, etc etc...

 

[mysupra87]

this thread sucks.this was started to be a flame war.well im ready. :2ar15: i dont know much about this topic,but nobody knows the truth,so imo why start a war that cant be ended with 100% fact.this was just asking for a religion/science battle.rant over.

 

[lagged]

heh yeah nick m youre a troll!

what i dont really understand, is how people can be so close minded. people who take the bible LITERALLY, and certain "scientists" (for lack of a better term?) who refuse to believe that there is any CHANCE that a god of some type exists, simply because they have not seen proof.

 

[Supracentral]

this was just asking for a religion/science battle.rant over.

Which is why I'm not debating the issue, as far as I can see there is no debate between mysticism and science. You take religion out of the equation, and creationism vanishes. There can be no discussion on the matter without it. It's religious dogma, plain and simple.

Nick has created ground rules for this discussion which limit the scope of what people are allowed to discuss. Then he declares victory when people can't discuss the topic under his artificial limitations. I don't operate under those conditions.

People are welcome to live in the dark ages, I prefer the light.

 

[Supracentral]

what i dont really understand, is how people can be so close minded. people who take the bible LITERALLY, and certain "scientists" (for lack of a better term?) who refuse to believe that there is any CHANCE that a god of some type exists, simply because they have not seen proof.

There's always a chance. It would be very nice if there were something like that, however as you say, I've seen no evidence that would lead me to believe there is.

Carl Sagan put it succinctly in a couple of famous quotes:

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

"There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny."

I've reviewed the ideas on the "creation science" side of the fence. They don't pass basic scrutiny nor do they provide the minimal level of evidence needed that would lead to further consideration. There's no science there. I put them in the same category as the old hypothesis that the moon was made of green cheese. It's just nonsense, and not worth a debate.

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

^ Wow. Carl Sagan always puts it best.

 

[lagged]

our minds are so amazingly powerful, that they can create entire worlds and believe it to be reality. a dream for example, with past events and awarness of truths only so in that dream is something that blows my mind.

if when we die, our minds create a heaven and we percieve it to be eternity, then that is good enough for me.

perception IS reality.

 

[thesandymancan]

God help you, cause you're not gonna' be doing any sleeping after you die!

quick question... why would god help you if he's damning you?

 

[Joel W.]

Cool, It's still open...

Here are a few pages to chew on. I don't know how accurate any of it is but it is interesting to me..

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1212_021213_journeyofman.html
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Ethiopian_Fossils_Link_Ape_Men_To_Distant_Human_Ancestors.html
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060412_anamensis_evo.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0227_030227_javaskull.html
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2708

Edit:
As for dino birds, all I can say is the preditory arm reach and grab stroke is the same motion as a birds flight stroke. Add feathers and hollow the bones a bit and we have controlled flight.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980630081903.htm
http://www.amonline.net.au/chinese_dinosaurs/feathered_dinosaurs/grasping_arms.htm
http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/index.php?url=Avian_Sinornithosaurus_00.jpg&cat=avianancestors
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dinosaurs/dn8408

And yes, I am STILL evolving...

 

[91T breezen']

On the scientific side of the argument, one still has to ask, where did the universe come from? How did it all start, was it just always there? Isn't that impossible? There are some things, that even the most brilliant scientists cannot explain.
Nothing from nothing, leaves nothing. I just don't see why people waste so much time on questions, that mankind will never, ever, have an answer for. I think (just an opinion) that people whom are uncomfortable with the possibility (in their minds) that there is a God, keep trying to explain him away through science. I think that this discussion can be civil, without people argreeing on viewpoints.

 

[lagged]

whether youre a christian or not, i think almost anybody can agree with jesus's fundamental message:

be nice to everyone, try to be happy while doing so.

basically, that is all he had to say. why people had to distort and pervert it? and turn it into a way t omake money? i dont know....

but basically, that was it. plain and simple. life is fun. find fun stuff to do, like wrenching on supras! and eventually, DRIVING THEM!! woooooooooooooooooo


ok, /drunk post

 

[Joel W.]

I just don't see why people waste so much time on questions, that mankind will never, ever, have an answer for.

It is human nature to do so. In fact, it is what sets us apart from every other animal in nature...perhaps because man is the only animal without instinct (we do not demonstrate any unlearned complex behavior).

I for one, am curious and bored.

 

[Supracentral]

On the scientific side of the argument, one still has to ask, where did the universe come from? How did it all start, was it just always there? Isn't that impossible? There are some things, that even the most brilliant scientists cannot explain.

True, these are all valid scientific questions, and we still don't really have a clue what the answer to any of them are. Even if you subscribe to the "big bang" theory, you still have to ask the question "what started the bang?".

Could it be some being uttering the equivalent of "Let there be light?" - certainly. Have I seen any evidence to lead me to believe this is a valid hypothesis? No, I haven't.

Nothing from nothing, leaves nothing. I just don't see why people waste so much time on questions, that mankind will never, ever, have an answer for.

That type of thought limits mankind. When everyone KNEW the world was flat, sailing off towards "the edge" was looked at the same way. Why waste your time? You will fall off the edge! I for one am truly glad that argument wasn't listened to...

The earth is stationary, the planets and sun all revolve around it, right? No, wrong. But that was the accepted truth for ages. Why question it?

Science is about finding answers to tough quesitons. Will we ever understand the universe in full? Likely not, but if I were to follow your reasoning above to it's logical conclusion, you would be saying we should just give up the quest for knowlege since we'll never understand everything 100%. Is that what you are asking for? Just believe some silly story someone made up to explain away things they didn't understand?

I think (just an opinion) that people whom are uncomfortable with the possibility (in their minds) that there is a God, keep trying to explain him away through science.

I think (also an opinion, but based upon the empirical evidence) that people who are uncomfortable with the possibility that there is no god, keep trying to explain science away with mysticisim, junk science and rhetoric.

 

[lagged]

It is human nature to do so. In fact, it is what sets us apart from every other animal in nature...perhaps because man is the only animal without instinct (we do not demonstrate any unlearned complex behavior).

I for one, am curious and bored.

naw, i have to disagree. i think we are very instictual. whenever i see some pu$$y all i can think of is to bang bang bang bang bang bang!!

 

[Joel W.]

I guess your right. Not sure how complex or unlearned that is but it is a survival instinct...The need to propagate the species..

We so horny!!! :biglaugh:

 

[greg88]

naw, i have to disagree. i think we are very instictual. whenever i see some pu$$y all i can think of is to bang bang bang bang bang bang!!

Very true...:naughty:

 

[91T breezen']

Greg88...Your avatars' makin' me hungry!:yum: :biggrinbo So I'm off to McDonalds. Crap! I just slowed my Supra down by 2/10th's. LOL!:icon_razz

 

[IJ.]

I strongly resist the urge to evolve I'm a guy!

 

[Joel W.]

^^^Bachelor walking...:icon_razz


LOL j/k