Depleted uranium?!?!?!? WTF

GrimJack

Administrator
Dec 31, 1969
12,377
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Richmond, BC, Canada
idriders.com
First off, I am not an anti president Bush person, AND I'm not American.

That said... Folks, go sign up for a basic Chem course. It's called DEPLETED for a reason - the people making the ammo don't use active uranium for a reason - because it's valuable and can be used in other ways more efficiently. DU is pretty boring stuff, it's less radioactive than the ore we mine out of the ground - and this is not difficult to test, pick up a few rounds off the internet and run them by a geiger counter if you want to prove it for yourself.

This stuff poses less of a threat than an active uranium mine... so the people in the USA living near the mines would face higher risks than the people living where it was shot.

As for that flash, IMO it's total BS. I can't believe (actually, I suppose I am being naive, someone is ALWAYS trying to point fingers at the USA) that someone is blaming the USA for mutations happening in a country that was subjected to chemical weapons attacks from their own government. What do you think is more likely to screw up the breeding pool - slightly radioactive lead, or chemical weapons designed to poison all life?

And the USA has used DU rounds on american soil, I've personally attended a demonstration of the A-10 where they were showing off the armour penetration with DU rounds against old tanks. If this were a serious problem, I'd be willing to bet that someone in the lawsuit happy USA would have sued the ammunition manufacturer, the weapon manufacturer, Fairchild, the US Army, and the US federal government already.
 

rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
2,997
0
36
55
Fort Campbell, KY
Not to flame, but you people fall for far too much. I've handled & fired 25mm DU rounds, and lots & lots of them. The Army has a lot of NBC equipment that I've used, too. We held a gieger counter just inches away from a full ready box of DU munitions (300 rounds) and the geiger counter never blipped a single time.

It's called DEPLETED uranium for a reason, so don't get caught up in some slanted flash.

and another thing. A lot of the mutations in the Flash looks to have been caused by Nerve VX. Gogle nerve+agent+iraq+kurds and so who mught have really caused the deaths in the flash.
 

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
Apr 1, 2005
574
0
0
Woodstock, GA
figgie said:
lol that flash is funny
Upon impact it causes immidiate increase in temprature at the point of contact that melts through the tank armor/armor. Upon entering it loses enough energy that it turns the inside of a tank into a pinball machine except with UD shrapnel. End result is anyone in the tank is deader then dead.

Actually, that's not entirely true. Common misconception.

When the rounds hit and spawl through, most of the round is turned to dust. HOT dust. Imagine being inside the tank when this hot dust fills the air. Imagine being cooked and turned into charcoal inside of one of those tanks - that's pretty much what happens. It's like when you let a marshmallow burn at a campfire.

From those reports:

"Military experts regard DU as an almost magically effective material. DU is 1.7 times denser than lead, and when a weapon made with a DU tip or core strikes the side of a tank or bunker, it slices straight through and erupts in a burning radioactive cloud"

"It is pyrophoric, generating intense heat on impact, penetrating a tank because of the heavy weight of its metal. When uranium munitions hit, it’s like a firestorm inside any vehicle or structure, and so we saw tremendous burns, tremendous injuries. It was devastating."
 

LoveMy7MGTE

New Member
Nov 24, 2005
162
0
0
39
Grosse Pointe, Michigan
GrimJack said:
First off, I am not an anti president Bush person, AND I'm not American.

That said... Folks, go sign up for a basic Chem course. It's called DEPLETED for a reason - the people making the ammo don't use active uranium for a reason - because it's valuable and can be used in other ways more efficiently. DU is pretty boring stuff, it's less radioactive than the ore we mine out of the ground - and this is not difficult to test, pick up a few rounds off the internet and run them by a geiger counter if you want to prove it for yourself.

This stuff poses less of a threat than an active uranium mine... so the people in the USA living near the mines would face higher risks than the people living where it was shot.

As for that flash, IMO it's total BS. I can't believe (actually, I suppose I am being naive, someone is ALWAYS trying to point fingers at the USA) that someone is blaming the USA for mutations happening in a country that was subjected to chemical weapons attacks from their own government. What do you think is more likely to screw up the breeding pool - slightly radioactive lead, or chemical weapons designed to poison all life?

And the USA has used DU rounds on american soil, I've personally attended a demonstration of the A-10 where they were showing off the armour penetration with DU rounds against old tanks. If this were a serious problem, I'd be willing to bet that someone in the lawsuit happy USA would have sued the ammunition manufacturer, the weapon manufacturer, Fairchild, the US Army, and the US federal government already.
Thank you Grim!!! Glad to see some1 has more than a few functioning braincells. DU shells DO NOT cause mutations, if they did, do you honestly think the US Military would have its people handling them with bare hands? I'm in training as a Nuclear Engineer for the US Navy, and you people have no idea how carefull the military is with radioactive materials. CHEMICAL WEAPONS used by their OWN GOVERNMENT has cause mutations, birth defects, and cancer. DU used by the United States had NO IMPACT on this WHATSOEVER and any1 who believes otherwise, god help you get through life with all two of your functioning brain cells.
 

SupraMario

I think it was the google
Mar 30, 2005
3,467
6
38
38
The Farm
^^ i said no flaming,
I'm just a curious as the next person who has heard of DU and never in their life understood it, im not trying to bash the government in any way possible, i thank all the people who have cleared up the crap this flash demo has showed me, I dont beileve instantly that o thats what happened, the pics of the kids yea, i know damn well DU probably didnt happen from that crap, but as for the gulf war syndrom, hmm, that had a little bit more of an impact with truth than mutations from kids.
I have a neighbor who has GWS. and he doesnt know WTF caused it, and neither do i, so when someone presents u with a hint at a possible answer then, i look into it more so.
again this was a debate and not a flame war, so the brain cells thing was a bit unneccary, lets keep this thread cleaner than that. its just a topic.
 

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
Apr 1, 2005
574
0
0
Woodstock, GA
Many people speculated that GWS was caused by contaminated drinking/shower/laundry water.


On a less serious note:
Maybe GWB had something to do with GWS. I mean, two out of three initials match, and Meatloaf said "Two Outta Three Ain't Bad"! A lot of people have really liked to blame the Bush family for the world's woes. Oh, and he allegedly doesn't care about black people, either, per the genius Kanye West.


You can laugh now.
 

Satan

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
1,594
0
36
Tampa
Lots of propaganda out there and all kinds of unrelated pics, events, and useless stats can be used to present what someone wants you to believe.

I surely wouldn't get all mad about this, I'd look for true verification (if I was even close to believing it)...
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
1,561
0
0
Washington
what i was reading earlier in my other post, suggested that it was not so much the radioactiveness that caused problems but the heavy metal leeching into the soil and drinking water that poses the greatest threats.. here what i was reading, granted i dont know how accurate any of these stories are.

http://khon.com/khon/displayStory.cfm?storyID=10312
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1451335.php
http://www.coastalpost.com/06/01/03a_.html
http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=4327067
 

Troyota

I Love What You Do For Me
Jul 28, 2005
243
0
0
44
Roswell NM
It would be similar to asbestos inhalation or something like that...definitely wouldn't be pleasant. Actually a lot of those pictures in that flash were exactly that (Nerve/Blister Agent exposures) Now that I really sit back and think about it I remember seeing a film when I was training as an NBC Specialist (54B) of footage from the Iran/Iraq war and also from Saddam's own attacks against Kurdish villages with his Chemical weapons arsenal and a lot of those pictures are definitely Iraqi children who were caught up in those attacks. DU could still be associated w/ GWS in soldiers who were either envolved in widely publicized Friendly Fire incidents where A-10's accidentally attacked Coalition armor instead of Iraqi armor as victims or as the rescue crews. Plus any US soldiers who cracked open tanks and other targets that were hit with DU rounds and inhaled the DU particles. Of course this was also before the government realized the health hazards associated with DU and they do indeed show a film about the dangers of DU rounds on the battlefield in current training doctrine.
 

Brewster

So it goes.
Apr 15, 2005
1,156
0
0
38
Morgantown, WV
GrimJack said:
First off, I am not an anti president Bush person, AND I'm not American.

That said... Folks, go sign up for a basic Chem course. It's called DEPLETED for a reason - the people making the ammo don't use active uranium for a reason - because it's valuable and can be used in other ways more efficiently. DU is pretty boring stuff, it's less radioactive than the ore we mine out of the ground - and this is not difficult to test, pick up a few rounds off the internet and run them by a geiger counter if you want to prove it for yourself.

This stuff poses less of a threat than an active uranium mine... so the people in the USA living near the mines would face higher risks than the people living where it was shot.

As for that flash, IMO it's total BS. I can't believe (actually, I suppose I am being naive, someone is ALWAYS trying to point fingers at the USA) that someone is blaming the USA for mutations happening in a country that was subjected to chemical weapons attacks from their own government. What do you think is more likely to screw up the breeding pool - slightly radioactive lead, or chemical weapons designed to poison all life?

And the USA has used DU rounds on american soil, I've personally attended a demonstration of the A-10 where they were showing off the armour penetration with DU rounds against old tanks. If this were a serious problem, I'd be willing to bet that someone in the lawsuit happy USA would have sued the ammunition manufacturer, the weapon manufacturer, Fairchild, the US Army, and the US federal government already.

Ha, knew it was BS.
 

suprageezer

New Member
Aug 27, 2005
778
0
0
Southern California
Ok I gotta throw my two cents in. Who knows what LEAD is????? huh who???? I've seen a few sharp folks post to this thread but mostly repeaters are posting. What's a repeater? It's someone who will repeat anything their teams espouses true or false so as not to go against the team. In America there is no TEAM to side with, once we've elected a leader we again become One Team called Americans. A half life of 4.5 Billion, Enriched Uranium and Teflon have the longest half life known at about 10,000 years. Ain't nature grand, no matter what we make up ole mother nature will make it go away in time.
Geezer
 

Mark3Supraholic

Zero State
Mar 31, 2005
57
0
0
40
California
Great. Just another thing to add to the long list of things that will kill you. Some questions. How do we know that those pictures weren't from deformities from other nations or things on file? I am sure I saw at least one cleft pallet child in there. Cleft pallets happen worldwide in considerable numbers. And more than a couple of those photos look more like aborted babies rather than deformed children. Hey, I don't like the government all that much, but what infuriates me more is when people try to move their own agendas and ignore reason. Special interest groups and the occasianal wack job tend to get me bent out of shape. Sure the government isn't exactly great when it comes to reason, like the red light camera's, keeping ridiculously low speed limits, etc, but we have come a long way from 1960 and those DU shells found in old barracks in Hawaii. I once saw a video demonstrating the power of a DU sabot fired from an M1 Abrams. Same power with more destruction equals more efficiency. Efficient being a relative term here. The video is putting 3 and 4 together and getting 2. If the cancer and deformation rates are directly proportional to DU's usage and residue, then Hawaii might be filled with freaks right now right? Point is, there are other sources causing the deformation as well as natural human deficiency. Nerve gas being one of them. Come one, this is just another video propped onto the internet to push an anti-governmental agenda. No, not just anti-government, anti-BUSH. If you're not convinced, look at the site where the video is hosted. It's oozing with anti-bush. Sure DU might be cause for concern, which is what the Hawaii new's articles were saying, but you don't need to break down doors just yet.

Speaking of the chemical compositions. A 4.5 billion year half-life is astronomical. Especially when the average human lives to maybe 80 years old. Guess what? We're protected against more things now that we were 100 years ago. When average human life was a not so pleasant 60 years or so. Who knows exactly how much DU residual is in the water or in the soil? Was it a direct cause? Hey, that tungsten filament in that bulb that burned out will be around for 4.5billion years. WATCH OUT! Yes DU is radioactive. From the Uranium Information Centre in Melbourne I got this, it might be a bit skewed but what isn't?

-The basic fuel for a nuclear power reactor is uranium - a very heavy metal containing abundant concentrated energy.
-It is mildly radioactive and occurs naturally in the Earth's crust.
-Depleted uranium is a by-product or waste product of uranium enrichment.
-The health hazards associated with any uranium are much the same as those for lead.

The last one begs the question, how much LEAD have you drank today?

Just a couple of cents. Maybe a nickel.
 

aye mate

Hiatus over.
Mar 30, 2005
1,926
0
0
Maryland
That flash was total Propaganda. Unless they did all that research themselves(I DOUBT) it was full of plagarism too. haha
 

SupraMario

I think it was the google
Mar 30, 2005
3,467
6
38
38
The Farm
Mark3Supraholic said:
Great. Just another thing to add to the long list of things that will kill you. Some questions. How do we know that those pictures weren't from deformities from other nations or things on file? I am sure I saw at least one cleft pallet child in there. Cleft pallets happen worldwide in considerable numbers. And more than a couple of those photos look more like aborted babies rather than deformed children. Hey, I don't like the government all that much, but what infuriates me more is when people try to move their own agendas and ignore reason. Special interest groups and the occasianal wack job tend to get me bent out of shape. Sure the government isn't exactly great when it comes to reason, like the red light camera's, keeping ridiculously low speed limits, etc, but we have come a long way from 1960 and those DU shells found in old barracks in Hawaii. I once saw a video demonstrating the power of a DU sabot fired from an M1 Abrams. Same power with more destruction equals more efficiency. Efficient being a relative term here. The video is putting 3 and 4 together and getting 2. If the cancer and deformation rates are directly proportional to DU's usage and residue, then Hawaii might be filled with freaks right now right? Point is, there are other sources causing the deformation as well as natural human deficiency. Nerve gas being one of them. Come one, this is just another video propped onto the internet to push an anti-governmental agenda. No, not just anti-government, anti-BUSH. If you're not convinced, look at the site where the video is hosted. It's oozing with anti-bush. Sure DU might be cause for concern, which is what the Hawaii new's articles were saying, but you don't need to break down doors just yet.

Speaking of the chemical compositions. A 4.5 billion year half-life is astronomical. Especially when the average human lives to maybe 80 years old. Guess what? We're protected against more things now that we were 100 years ago. When average human life was a not so pleasant 60 years or so. Who knows exactly how much DU residual is in the water or in the soil? Was it a direct cause? Hey, that tungsten filament in that bulb that burned out will be around for 4.5billion years. WATCH OUT! Yes DU is radioactive. From the Uranium Information Centre in Melbourne I got this, it might be a bit skewed but what isn't?

-The basic fuel for a nuclear power reactor is uranium - a very heavy metal containing abundant concentrated energy.
-It is mildly radioactive and occurs naturally in the Earth's crust.
-Depleted uranium is a by-product or waste product of uranium enrichment.
-The health hazards associated with any uranium are much the same as those for lead.

The last one begs the question, how much LEAD have you drank today?

Just a couple of cents. Maybe a nickel.

Aye Mate and Mark3 these questions and statements you have posted have been answered. this discusion has pretty much been brought to the fact, that the flash animation is bullshit, thanks to all the very inteligent and free thinking members here.
:biglaugh: