CPS is not timed, everything else is timed, car won't start.

badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
So i was doing a coolant flush recently, and everything went down hill. I think my supra hates me. Here's what happened.
Bought a new radiator drain plug from autozone, they had to order it, it was the wrong part. Brought it back and they had the right part behind the counter, even though i asked before if they had any other besides the ones on the shelf. All in all it's ok got the right part. Also picked up some PEAK antifreeze there, and some Distilled water from the local Kroger. Asked about a coolant flush solution there at autozone, they had no idea what i was talking about, the fellow that found the plug also directed me to where that was on the shelf as well! GREAT.

I figured since i was doing this i would pick up a new OEM radiator cap and OEM thermostat from Toyota south, in Morrow, GA. I should have known better as they kept trying to pass off some other 1jz or 2jz or something else sensor on my even though mine was nothing like it.
Got back home and of course the radiator cap is nothing at all like mine. It wouldn't even fit and even if it would the seal was much too recessed to work it was aboslutly wrong. The thermostat however was by the same manufacturer as mine, and both had 88 on them. I even asked the clerk there what the Operating temp was for this thermostat and he said about 180-190* F which is what i've read is stock. The Thermostat looked somewhat different, aside from the shiny new look, the opening portion was in the dead center, where as my original was slightly offset, and both of them had the little jiggle pin/valve deals. He gave me a new gasket/o-ring/gromet thing too, and with what has come to be a very ironic statement "it's only $3.00 and will save you even more in gas money looking for one."

I drained the radiator, and the block. I put my new thermostat in, flushed everything with water, added my flush kit and water and took the car for a 10 minute drive after it was at operating temp. Came back home drained everything and di another water flush, plugged her up and added my coolant and distilled water. I left to pick my girlfriend up from work, and after about 20 minutes right as i came to the stop light on the exit ramp i saw some steam and my heat hand rising! I drove the car back home with puffs of steam and erratic jumps in my temp gauge. By the time i was home coolant was pouring out of the front of my engine. I discovered the gasket on the waterpump blew out. I thought the pump was to blame, and installed a new pump and gasket. The next day the same thing happened! Except this time the Hose going from the thermostat housing to a metal fitting on the block blew, and maybe the gasket too. So i ordered a new Gasket and got a piece of radiator hose cut to length and re-installed.

I'm sure now that it was the thermostat i was given that is to blame, it was either the wrong operating temp or it was faulty. I took it out and it seemed as though with a little force it would open but it was sticking, you could see the wear on the brass portion where it was rubbing against it's frame thing. where as my old thermo would open smoothly without a stick and was not rubbing anywhere. Needless to say i stuck my old thermostat back in.

Here is where i went wrong. I made the TERRIBLE mistake of removing my CPS because i didn't know what it was and it was kind of in the way while messing with the thermostat housing. When i pulled it out and saw the gears on it i knew it had something to do with timing and that I fucked up. After i got everything back together the car would not start. I got ignition noise, and sometimes a single fire from the engine.

The next day i turned my crank over to 0* and lined up my cam pulleys with the notches on the plate behind them. I rotated the CPS helical gear so that the circular hole was aligned with the notch on the straight gear portion and stuck it back in. My battery was too low to even try to get it to start. I havn't tried since after realising that just turning the crank to 0 would not indicate TDC *duh* so i'd need to verify that by checking the #1 piston.

During this downtime i found this thread

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?38775-How-To-basic-timing-instructions-CPS-alignment

What i want to know is, will i have to set the ignition timing since the only thing i did was removed the CPS and not the timing belt.

Can i just align the red marks as shown stick it in while at TDC and everything be ok? I didn't even know about the red marks untill i found the previous thread. I was going on the circular notch and the the notch on the regular gear to indicate proper timing for the inital state of the CPS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-smo0jp5bk

This guy shows what i did pretty much except in my haste i forgot about making sure which stroke i was on when attempting to set my engine to TDC. He doesn't say anything about disassembling the CPS to align any red marks he just aligns the notches. Do i need to align the red marks?

Sorry guys i'm confused
 

Raven97990

Supramania Contributor
Jul 3, 2005
230
0
0
Georgia
www.speedforsale.com
You set the crank to top dead center and cans at their notches. Set the CPs to the notches and slide it in. It should be about 12-1 o'clock.

And yes you need to use a timing light to set it, there is mechanical timing(timing belt ) and the ignition timing (positioning the cps ).

Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
 

badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
I have no idea what a WOTM is. I assume is has something to do with eventually being redirected to watching mercades with 10 foot hydrolic extentions on the rear tires in the United Arab Emirate.
The TSRM points to the CPS as a potential problem, and i know it's right because i removed mine before the problem occured. It only says to put the #1 cylinder at TDC, and align the notches on the CPS during installation.

I'm not sure how to use a timing light, I checked this out but i still don't really understand what it does?
http://www.supra.co.nz/timing.htm

I like to think brand new parts from the dealership would work as intended. Glad to know it was the right one atleast, and my current is also correct.
Why is PEAK a bad choice? if it's because it's for poor people that's why i chose it. Better than the AUTOZONE brand i assume.


wide open throttle movie ? lol i don't know..
 
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supraguy@aol

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2005
4,239
42
48
Atlanta
If you own a Supra and work on it yourself, You MUST own a repair guide of some sort.
Hayne's, Chilton's, or a Toyota TSRM.
at the very least, you need to refer to the online TSRM.

It will tell you how to adjust your ignition timing.
The preferred choice for antifreeze/ coolant is Toyota red coolant.
It's what the car came with originally, and does not run the risk of allowing the aluminum in your coolant circuit to corrode like other coolants do.
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
#1 needs to be TDC on compression. You can check that by removing the oil cap like the book shows or, if you have the plug out, by simply putting something over the hole. Most people use their thumb but feel free to use any body part that fits.

After the CPS is installed the engine will need to be timed. Make sure it's warm and the system is in diag mode with no codes showing when that's done. Again, see the TSRM.

PEAK will work but it's a poor choice because, you guessed it, one usually gets what one pays for.

Edit: http://tinyurl.com/7wq6e6t

Scroll down to "Update Day 2"
 
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badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
I already knew how to find TDC. I just lined everything up last time and forgot about checking the #1 cylinder's piston position or cam position and decided to leave it untill i worked out the concerns i had about the CPS. Will be sure to pick a worth while body part to stick in there though this time around to make sure.

i was looking at an online TSRM but it wasn't showing me everything. found this one http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=IG&P=19 which is alot more helpful and more easily interactive. i think i can figure this out using this one.

about the coolant. I've heard that once there's been green type coolant if you change to a red type if there was any residue left from the green type it would act as a catalyst when they come in contact and cause corrosion or the mixture would make some kind of gel and clog everything. So since when i got the car it had green i stuck with green. since i've flushed the hell out of it, you think i should get some red type? would any red type coolant be better or would it only be worth using the toyota brand? or since i had green in already should i just leave green? ugh
 

badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/263790-Antifreeze-Experiment-amp-Testing

THAT is totally fucked up. Now i am left to wonder if the thermostat was faulty or if the PEAK antifreeze just destroyed my cooling system! what the hell why hasn't this crap been pulled off the shelves ? i mean it wasn't really even that cheap infact it was probably one of the higher end coolants at autozone aside from their generic brand. they carried dex-cool but i decided against it since i had heard mixing the two was a bad thing.
i'm guessing the toyota red is simular in quality to the "g12" coolant? where can either of these coolants be purchased? toyota and audi dealers? i really hate to go back to toyota south for anything.
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Color means nothing. It's just dye. If the system has been well flushed coolant chemistry can be changed without problem although straight PEAK fared worse in that test than a mix.

What Toyota recommends is a zero silicate formula, preferably an HOAT with phosphate. Although not phosphated Zerex G-05 is what I used for many years with excellent results. The newer Zerex Asian is closest to OEM. It only comes in premixed though. Course, OEM is fine too. Last I checked Napa carries G-05.

All that said, while chemistry is important, maintenance is what really matters. Without it even the best coolant won't help. Electrolysis and hose damage due to ECD come to mind. Both are bad news.
 

badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
even the simplest maintenance wasn't an issue with the previous owner, because it never happened!:nono:

you should have seen the oil that i drained out of it when i got it. black thick syrup.

Oil in the sparkplug valley, oil coating the front of the engine around the crank seal! no gaskets on the transmission pan, just some kind of caulk both sealing it and holding the bolts in as most the holes were stripped and same condition on the oil pain.
the cam covers are bolted down with phillips head bolts instead of hexigonal bolts, i don't know if that's right but when i got the car they were loose and leaking! i'm sure the head gasket probably has some leaks.

I've been working to try to remedy these problems one at a time and can't afford to tear down the engine to do a rebuild or even a complete seal replacement. I'm sure this thing is in bad shape but it has been reliable and fun. i mean for the condition it appears to be in it's fast and reliable, usually.haha
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
38,728
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62
I come from a land down under
badass_m0_f0;1789812 said:
I have no idea what a WOTM is. I assume is has something to do with eventually being redirected to watching mercades with 10 foot hydrolic extentions on the rear tires in the United Arab Emirate.
The TSRM points to the CPS as a potential problem, and i know it's right because i removed mine before the problem occured. It only says to put the #1 cylinder at TDC, and align the notches on the CPS during installation.

I'm not sure how to use a timing light, I checked this out but i still don't really understand what it does?
http://www.supra.co.nz/timing.htm

I like to think brand new parts from the dealership would work as intended. Glad to know it was the right one atleast, and my current is also correct.
Why is PEAK a bad choice? if it's because it's for poor people that's why i chose it. Better than the AUTOZONE brand i assume.


wide open throttle movie ? lol i don't know..
WOTM, aka Waste Of Time and Money :)
 

badass_m0_f0

New Member
Mar 5, 2010
14
0
0
Atlanta, GA
I'm going to go back out today and see if i can get my ignition timing set back up properly. I'm still a little confused about this post http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?38775-How-To-basic-timing-instructions-CPS-alignment . The online TSRM doesn't show anything about removing the cover of the CPS while installing the CPS and timing your ignition. I'll probably just stick to the what it says in the TSRM.

Since we got on the subject of coolant. Why is Distilled so important? I know tap water has all kinds of metals, chemicals, and trace amounts of drugs but does my car care that much? I intend on using distilled water either way. But would it hurt to fill up the radiator with tap water just for a quick trip to the NAPA to get some of the Zerex G-05 suggested above? I'm sure it can't be any worse than the PEAK mixture i drove around on or the tap water i had to continuously add to my radiator to get on on when my care overheated...

Thanks again guys!