couple prolly noobish questions. Any help??

[rawmk3]

Oh so here are the prolly simple and stupid questions i pose. The charcoal canister, Is it going to be needed after I put an EGR block off in place? I know the vaccume tubes go back to the fire wall but dont know exactly where the line goes after that. Im trying to research what can go and what can stay for my up and coming build.

My next question has to do with the cruise control area. I noticed 2-3 sensors on the brackets that the cruise control canister is on, not to mention the vaccume lines that go to them. I am removing all of the un needed things in my car, and cruise is def going out the door, but need to know if anything else there is needed. There are 3 plugs that i had to remove, and wanted to know if anyone knows if there is anything I need to leave, and possibly mount up to the firewall or something.

Thanks for any help guys. I have not been able to find the answers thru searching, so I figured i would pose the questions for those that know to answer.

 

[DFISH85]

you should keep the charcoal canister. its part of the EVAP system that routes evaporated fuel from the fuel tank into the intake manifold for combustion.

 

[Poodles]

and EGR is necessary if you are keeping the stock ECU...

 

[rawmk3]

and EGR is necessary if you are keeping the stock ECU...

Using a maft pro, will that change the EGR at all? Im trying to do my research now, so I dont have to do it as I go.

 

[jdub]

No...the MAFT Pro is a piggyback computer. You are still using the stock ECU.

This is looking like a "clean up the engine bay thread"...the ones that always result in a host of self induced problems.

 

[rawmk3]

No...the MAFT Pro is a piggyback computer. You are still using the stock ECU.

This is looking like a "clean up the engine bay thread"...the ones that always result in a host of self induced problems.

Well I am trying to avoid a huge amount of self enduced problems, thus the reason I am asking the questions now before I go and screw something up. And I understand that the Maft is a piggyback system that feeds false signals to the ECU, but after looking thru the threads, I have seen alot of motors that seem not to have an EGR, and from the write up i have seen, they are not running stand alones. So that is why I am asking. I really dont feel like spending the better part of 2k for a stand alone, not to mention getting them mapped for my car too. I am trying to clean up as much as I can, but if there are things that are needed then I can clean them up in other ways. Im just trying to eliminate as much as possible to keep things from possibly going wrong. I mean the less there is the less you can break right? And when it comes to me, if it can be broken I can break it, or it will fail. Im actually doing a full engine build, and getting rid of what i can for space in the engine bay. And if I can get rid of something like the EGR system that robs power anyway that would be sweet. If I can not is there any simulator for it?

 

[rawmk3]

Also please explain how using the stock ECU with the VCV and EGR removed would cause a problem? Because all I can see is that a CEL would come up, and I can live with that. Im not worried about CEL. Its an Exhaust gas Recirculation valve. So if exhaust gasses are not passed from the block to the intake how would that give an issue with a stock ECU other than changing the AF ratio possibly, and making my air charge cooler. I would love to know about this, because I have run an EGR block off on other cars without any problem, just wondering how this will effect the supra differently than say a DSM or other import or domestic car with egr.

 

[jdub]

1) The EGR is used to control part throttle detonation (under load) on the 7M.

2) The USDM ECU is tuned for it being there.

3) The EGR is inop at idle and above ~4000 RPM...removing it will have no effect on top HP produced. It does not "rob power".

4) Removing it is a foolish thing to do unless you use a JDM ECU or a stand alone.

There have been several threads that have discussed this subject recently..the most recent:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79601

 

[92TealSupra]

No...the MAFT Pro is a piggyback computer. You are still using the stock ECU.

This is looking like a "clean up the engine bay thread"...the ones that always result in a host of self induced problems.

I want to say " I have done the Clean The Engine Bay Up" id id remove the charcoal canister, and other items.. only to realize that I was completely stupid, and never read or knew what would result in my foolish task I did.

Lucky me that was a LONG* time ago, and now I don't have to worry, because I know how it works.. I don't use a charcoal canister right now, because I am installing a Fuel cell, you can take out that cruise control and just make sure the right vacuum lines so that your boost gauge works and the heater controller valve vacuum line works too.

Also what are the differences of a Jdm ECU, is it the emissions controllers are not there? Is the Australia one, and EURO models the same? I know some don't even have a EGR, and I know the ECU uses the 02 sensor to tell everything and the EGR reuses exhaust so the 02 sensor works correctly.

 

[rawmk3]

Ok. I just want to remove pretty much anything I can so my engine isnt cluttered with hoses and a bunch of crap I really dont need, and possibly things that can break, and or leak. That is part of my build is to clean up alot of the things that dont need to be there, and reduce as much of the extra crap as i can as well. Im trashing the AC system, the cruise control, and the heater core as well as all the heating and AC crap from under my dash. Im just trying to get rid of what im not going to use, remove a bunch of wires that dont need to be there (crap that is gutted) and make my car look alot better in general. That is why im here is to research what can stay and what can go. Find idea's from other peoples builds, and learn more about my car. Im just trying to do my research right now. and learn what I can do, and if i can not do something, id love to understand why.

 

[jdub]

Teal - the JDM ECU has no EGR provision...it is tuned for it's absence (timing and fuel). Any ECU from a country without an EGR is the same.

It's simple...all that "crap" is required for the engine to run correctly. There is no way someone that knows what they are doing is going to write the novel required to tell you how to do it with no ill effect. You need to do A LOT of reading in the TSRM. not going to get spoon fed on this one

Do what you want, but I'll promise you will remove something and next we will see is "Why is my motor running like crap". What you want to do is simply not worth it...way more work than you imagine. For example, if you remove the charcoal canister, you are asking to either depressurize the tank or dump fuel vapor to the atmosphere where you don't want it. Can you say "weenie roast".

I've already told you why on the EGR...seems you're determined to do it anyway to me.

 

[92TealSupra]

No...the MAFT Pro is a piggyback computer. You are still using the stock ECU.

This is looking like a "clean up the engine bay thread"...the ones that always result in a host of self induced problems.

Ok. I just want to remove pretty much anything I can so my engine isnt cluttered with hoses and a bunch of crap I really dont need, and possibly things that can break, and or leak. That is part of my build is to clean up alot of the things that dont need to be there, and reduce as much of the extra crap as i can as well. Im trashing the AC system, the cruise control, and the heater core as well as all the heating and AC crap from under my dash. Im just trying to get rid of what im not going to use, remove a bunch of wires that dont need to be there (crap that is gutted) and make my car look alot better in general. That is why im here is to research what can stay and what can go. Find idea's from other peoples builds, and learn more about my car. Im just trying to do my research right now. and learn what I can do, and if i can not do something, id love to understand why.

" and learn more about my car " -rawmk3 That is your number one task, you need to know there are not WIRES YOU CAN REMOVE. You think making everything look clean is going to work? If you take out everything you think you will good luck driving your car correctly.

Number 2, I don't know if you have even if you're coherent, you haven't listened to anyone on here, the post you just left should've been added on to your first post on the thread, because so far you're getting NO WHERE.

When " Supramanians " on here are telling you " from experience " you should damn well listen. I hope you're not over the age of 18 because, if I was next to you I would have laugh at all the ideas going through your head about this car.

What to keep:

Keep your damn ERG. If you do get rid of that: If you get rid of that: If you get rid of that: IF YOU GET RID OF THAT: then you will run into problems, and your o2 sensor is made to have that there.

Why do you need to get rid of your heater core, YOU DON't EVEN SEE IT? Remove your in dash harness too because you don't see it alright?

Leave your cruise control in.. damn ..

If you do not want uninviting problems then just keep it the way you have it.

 

[Poodles]

Go to 3 sidedraft carbs and ditch nearly everything...

Form follows function, if it's there it's there for a reason. Why do people think they're smarter than people that spent MILLIONS designing the car and even the smallest place to save money would have been multiplied by the cars produced and come out to huge amount of cash saved.

Last I knew Toyota made some of the most reliable cars on the road, that stuff is there to provide it and it was developed as a system.

 

[92TealSupra]

Go to 3 sidedraft carbs and ditch nearly everything...

Form follows function, if it's there it's there for a reason. Why do people think they're smarter than people that spent MILLIONS designing the car and even the smallest place to save money would have been multiplied by the cars produced and come out to huge amount of cash saved.

Last I knew Toyota made some of the most reliable cars on the road, that stuff is there to provide it and it was developed as a system.

Wow, I am glad to see someone on here that is not quite as mean as I can be, it seems like he has not listened to a word anyone has said. Hope he listens..

 

[Davismj711]

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[92TealSupra]

I couldn't agree with you more.

You think he would understand, the people that dedicate there lives to perfecting motor vehicles and making them work great would know where they're doing.

 

[antman]

You def. sound new to the supra.... to cars. You should lurke more and do LOTS of research before trying to remove things for cosmetic purposes, or any purpose for that matter.

Also the mentallity of "I don't mind the cell being on". Is like the boy who cried wolf. You won't know when somthing is really wrong. That is if the cell even works after you've ripped out everything "you don't need".

 

[lunchy]

Go to 3 sidedraft carbs and ditch nearly everything...

Form follows function, if it's there it's there for a reason. Why do people think they're smarter than people that spent MILLIONS designing the car and even the smallest place to save money would have been multiplied by the cars produced and come out to huge amount of cash saved.

Last I knew Toyota made some of the most reliable cars on the road, that stuff is there to provide it and it was developed as a system.

Yea cuz they spent alot of time and money on the head gasket development! S.F.D.

 

[rawmk3]

Teal - the JDM ECU has no EGR provision...it is tuned for it's absence (timing and fuel). Any ECU from a country without an EGR is the same.

It's simple...all that "crap" is required for the engine to run correctly. There is no way someone that knows what they are doing is going to write the novel required to tell you how to do it with no ill effect. You need to do A LOT of reading in the TSRM. not going to get spoon fed on this one

Do what you want, but I'll promise you will remove something and next we will see is "Why is my motor running like crap". What you want to do is simply not worth it...way more work than you imagine. For example, if you remove the charcoal canister, you are asking to either depressurize the tank or dump fuel vapor to the atmosphere where you don't want it. Can you say "weenie roast".

I've already told you why on the EGR...seems you're determined to do it anyway to me.

Ok I love your rant here. And I am well over 18. So lets start this way. I have more cars i have built with no ill effects of an EGR block off other than raised cylinder temps. The EGR is designed to flow unused gasses out of your exhaust in the #6 cylinder into your intake which kinda recycles them and thus reduces emissions. Most EGR systems are designed to work with a fully functioning bone stock system, which i am not. The EGR is also designed to work in combination with your catalitic converter. Which i dont have either. So telling me that your EGR will give ill effects to anything in the ECU is where I question your logic. Saying the O2 sensor is designed to read with an EGR on it makes no sence, because that O2 isnt designed to read with my 3" turbo back exhaust, yet it does, and its not designed to work with a bigger boosting turbo where the gasses flow by it faster, but again it does. So I am asking for actual facts that back your statement. Next, you saying that removing things like a charcoal canister designed for the evap system of a car that is going to have a fuel cell is another moot point. Telling me that removing unneeded wires is dumb, and I dont know what im doing again is stupid. Why remove things that I dont need, its to reduce weight, free up space, and get rid of things i dont need. Why remove the heater core? Because im taking out all of the heating and air conditioning ducting, and components. Why because the car is going to be a summer only car. So what do i need it for? It does not need to be there. What will i be removing wires of?? Well lets see the AC condensor activation switches, cruise control, ABS system the basics in a car that is going to be a drag car. Not once did you ask what the purpose of the car was ( ie daily driver, drag car, auto x, ect. ) and you go and try to jump at me telling me what im trying to do is dumb.. You should really take a step back and relax. I do lurk here alot as it is. And I read alot of information which is why I was asking, for input from the people that have done builds. Those people that dont run EGR and have a FFIM, or just remove it on a standard mani. I know what the charcoal canister is for, and yet I really dont need the damn thing with a fuel cell. And removing the crap under the dash is my own choice, because I dont need the heater or AC. You should really take a min to think about the things that someone else is doing, and possibly think about why before you go bashing what someone else does. U seem like one of those people pissed at the world because u dont have the money to do your own build. So relax and give me some actual facts to back your statements. Im not looking for opinions. And evidently toyota should have spent some more money on R&D on the heads of the 7M's since the standard HG issue, not to mention the oiling issues, as well as the stupid location of the heater core where its above the radiator. So next time you want to talk about things to me from an engineering stand point, you should really do your own research and think about all that. So feel free to pummel me with all your words of hatred of how i need to do my research and learn about toyota motors. Cause frankly I have been researching this since jan, and when I do my build U can be one of the first people to come to me and say how ugly my car came out, and it will never run, or is only going to give me problems. Please feel free. I got my answers I was looking for from a friend of mine who has similar power to what my goals are, and already has his built. So feel free to do or say as u will. I figured out what im going to do now. Thanks for your words of encouragement tho, and enjoy your day.

 

[rawmk3]

Oh by the way, After reading your other thread you referenced to, you are way off base on alot of your assumptions. An EGR is in place to redirect the inert exhaust gasses out of the #6 cylinder back into the intake. Which in turn basically smothers the ability for pre detonation by making the car seemingly run lean and thus retard timing due to the knock sensors. The knock sensors have absolutely nothing to do with the EGR system. The knock sensors are there to determine timing advance or retard levels, and relay them back to the ECU to make the adjustments. And stating that the EGR is something that removed will be detrimental to the motor is just a dumb statement. You are making assumptions of things you seem to know very little about. EGR gasses are drawn out of 1 cylinder and reintroduced into the intake in order to prevent predetonation. And any AFC would be able to adjust fuel loads to compensate for a standard issue like pre detonation, by dropping the load of the injectors down in order to prevent the ability of a rich enough condition to pre detonate. So please get your facts strait, and follow up what your stating with facts and not personal opinions. Saying you think EGR removal is a poor mans MOD for a USDM ECU is kinda pathetic. And the reasoning behind the multiple ECU setups is because of the US required SMOG control issues. They require cat's to be on the cars, and them to be within certain specs for emmisions control, where many other contries did not have the same laws governing them at that time, and thus they could be more aggresive on the ECU tuning as well no need for an EGR. That is also why the euro/JDM cars create more HP than US versions, because government controls of the US were not in the origional designs of the JDM supra's. The US requires basically a casteration of the supra in order to pass US inspections. And being that in my town I dont have emissions laws, Im not to friggin worried about it. And if you look at the base maps of those JDM vs USDM supra's, u will find that the JDM ones are more aggressive than the USDM ones even though they are non EGR. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, and quit bashing people for no real reason. Its just not right to impose your opinions on people like that is the only way to go.