Code 12 - 1JZGTE swap MA70

[87supramario]

Hey guys, I'm running out of ideas. I've never got the car running, as I have been away for school since the swap was done. Problem is, it's not producing spark. Turns over fine, getting fuel but no spark. I am getting code 21 (O2 is not hooked up [no weld on flange yet]) & 12. I've checked both cam positioning sensors, crank sensor and all their wiring to and from the ECU and all resistance readings are acceptable for cold range (all above 1100). My timing is on point, all ground points exists, etc.

Another thing, I've tried hand cranking the engine over while having the fuel pump turned off, the spark plugs out and the key in the ON position to see if the ECU was getting power (it obviously does because it's shooting codes) and if the ECU would fire the injectors, coils and igniter and nothing happened. Not sure if that is just a 7MGTE thing but no signs of anything reacting.


Q- Is there suppose to be a gap distance between the gear and the crank positioning sensor that should not be exceeded?
- How can I test my igniters?
- How can I test my injectors?
- Is it possible that my ECU capacitors are leaking just enough to create this problem ?

The online manuals don't acknowledge a gap distance. But I am out of ideas to my problem. Any ideas?

 

[JonoTurbo]

Check the crank timing gear, if the sensors check out there could be something wrong with it. It might be broken / missing / out of position.

 

[jkendall86]

Open up your ecu and look for obvious signs...

contact me via text...503-930-7268

 

[87supramario]

Check the crank timing gear, if the sensors check out there could be something wrong with it. It might be broken / missing / out of position.

Should I pull the crank pulley for a better visual?

I don't have a puller available until my father returns from work tonight. But I will be gone until Sunday.

Open up your ecu and look for obvious signs...

contact me via text...503-930-7268

I was told that this ecu works fine (can't always rely on others lol) and I have a aftermarket STEALTH tuned ecu that is doing the same thing, while reading the same codes, fortunately for the aftermarket ecu which will be used in the future. Also, I'm in Niagara Falls, Canada and I am not covered for over the border texting and calling. But I do appreciate it. I have opened them up in the past and me and another friend could not find any flaws.


Right now I am at the car and I've also noticed that code 12 involves the Open Circuit Relay. I found one behind the passenger kick panel. Is there a way I could determine that this is working? I will check on it's wiring when I get back on Sunday.

 

[jkendall86]

What about all your grounds?

contact me via text...503-930-7268

 

[87supramario]

From what I can remember of last year, I have a thick block to frame wire, head to block, fuse box grounded and part of my charge harness grounded as well.

If the coil packs are bolted to the head, grounding the head counts for the coils to be grounded as well, correct?::dunce::

 

[87supramario]

Also, I pulled my crank pulley to have a look at the crank sensor to teeth clearance and the gap is about the width of a credit card. But the teeth where not perfectly center-lined with the middle of the sensor's stainless cylinder. Is this normal? It looks as if there really isn't much that could be done in terms of moving the teeth/gear and spacing it away from the block, a few mm to be perfectly centered with the sensor. I'm only concerned about it because the previous owner never ran this engine and he may have pulled the gear off and made a mistake.

Me and my brother hooked up a multi meter to the sensor and turned the engine over a few times and there where no signs of signals jumping through the wires, but resistance while it's sitting is perfect. We may have had the Volt settings to the wrong one.

 

[JonoTurbo]

As long as the crank timing gear spins with the crank then it sounds fine. Were either your cam or crank sensors rewired at some point? They are polar, so if the wires get swapped around the sensor won't work.

 

[hvyman]

You have to check can and crank sensors with oscilloscope. Cannot do it with just a multimeter.

 

[87supramario]

As long as the crank timing gear spins with the crank then it sounds fine. Were either your cam or crank sensors rewired at some point? They are polar, so if the wires get swapped around the sensor won't work.

I sure hope not. The harness was extended by a electrical contractor by trade before I obtained it, then I swapped the grey plugs to my 1986.5 plugs. All the resister readings that where done at the plugs where also reading very similar numbers at the ecu. Mind you, I did notice that some resistance readings came from cris-crossing certain sensor wires together.

You have to check can and crank sensors with oscilloscope. Cannot do it with just a multimeter.

Thanks! This is good to know. I might be able to find someone to borrow one off of. But at this point, I'm pretty much out of other ideas to this problem, other than having to borrow a ecu and ignitor to test.

 

[87supramario]

Short update! Had a friend who is a 7M fanatic give me a few pointers to check. Fed 12v to the B+ plug under the diagnostics lid to see if the injectors would file, while the key is in the ON position and no signs of life or any ticking. Not sure if this method works on the 1JZ but there it is. If someone can confirm this works on a 1JZ, this information would help.

The igniter and all coils are receiving 12v while the car is on the ON position, but no signals to fire from the ecu, due to no sparks arching while plug #1 & 2 are resting on the front engine hook.

Opened the stock factory ecu and the STEALTH tuned ecu and only found leaking capacitors in the STEALTH tuned ecu. Stock ecu looks fine.

Today I'm separating the harness from the fire wall and opening it to check the extension that was performed by previous owner.

 

[dirosa]

the starwheel does not fully separate from the crank timing gear, it actually spins around giving false readings to the sensor. It may look ok but you have to try spinning it with a screwdriver and it shouldn't move. I had a similar issue and only confirmed it by removing the harmonic balancer and spinning it. If that's the case, it's an easy fix. Pull it off, re-align it and weld it back for a permanent solution or just buy a replacement.

 

[87supramario]

SHort and sweet update. Got a known working ecu that I was able to borrow to test. The car still did not start. Next option is to source me a oscilloscope to read if there is a good sensor giving false pulsating signals to the ecu while cranking. :: tumbleweed ::

the starwheel does not fully separate from the crank timing gear, it actually spins around giving false readings to the sensor. It may look ok but you have to try spinning it with a screwdriver and it shouldn't move. I had a similar issue and only confirmed it by removing the harmonic balancer and spinning it. If that's the case, it's an easy fix. Pull it off, re-align it and weld it back for a permanent solution or just buy a replacement.

Thanks for the reply. I did pull it off last week and I have tried moving it as hard as I could with my fingers and it was not moving. It was also will a-lined with the timing belt. I'm trying to have this running for this years 20th annual Toronto Supra Club meet!

 

[dirosa]

swapping ignitors is all that's left really, you've done everything I can think of. if you have a spare crank sensor, i'd throw that in for fun. both cam sensors being bad is unlikely, and she'll run with one bad and one good.

just curious, did you test the resistance of the wire alone (just straight copper, from end to end) from ecu to crank/cam sensor plugs? if so, what were the readings? should be less than 1 ohm for each individual wire. you might have to check continuity on all the important wires in your harness if it hasn't been confirmed working.

 

[87supramario]

That's great to know about the camshaft sensors. I did not know the car would still be able to run. I'm curious about them because oil seems to always find it's way under the plugs. I went to a yard today to find me a 2JZGE but they where closed.

I haven't checked the wires alone but each sensor where ohm tested at the sensors then tested at the pins at the ecu side. I've also tested B+ wire, each injector wire and the igniter wire, to know that each wire where properly extended and everything checked up fine. Each wire colour where found to be in their exact locations also.

I wish I had a set of coil packs to try. They are each cracked but only at the mounting points on every single one. Since I can't find a oscilloscope, I'm going to replace the sensors and hope for the best.

 

[dirosa]

I know you mentioned "all ground points exist", does that include the two harness grounds under the intake that I have forgotten on many occassions?

most coilpacks i've seen, although badly cracked, can start and poorly idle the engine. oil in the cam sensor connectors is a common issue. try putting some fipg (same one as for oil pan) on the cam sensor o-ring, I haven't had any oil in them since I did.

 

[87supramario]

I did find a bunch of ground points along the harness. I will double check, but are you able to tell me around which runner both of these ground points are? The harness is from a JZA70. I do remember finding some, near the fuse box.

I have added some FIPG the last time I've pulled the sensors but I'll have to clean them and see if oil comes back at all. Having oil on the sensors wouldn't kill them would they? lol I appreciate your input! Are you coming out to the meets this year?

 

[dirosa]

there's one mount point on the lower runners between 1&2 and another between 5&6.....but I don't have a jza70 harness so it might be off.

I think it's fine if it's just a bit, because when I first checked my cam sensors plugs and found oil inside, she was running fine. but I think over time, if left untreated, it'll soak thru the plastic and kill the sensor.

ya, i'm going to try to swing by saturday if all goes well. when were you planning on going?

 

[87supramario]

Thanks for that info. I found two ground wires that where mounted at the dip stick post, sandwiched against the intake manifold. Should be the same wires your talking about but double check on stray wires and plugs when the car is on the hoist someday.

Today I've visited mikes auto in upper hamilton and there is no 2jzge cars out there, or in Niagara. Just have to call Kenny-U pull tomorrow too see what they have and get quotes I'll on brand new sensors while I'm at it. I'm positive it's the Crank Positioning Sensor, since the car should run with 1 bad Cam Positioning Sensor and 1 good one. It's too bad I can't get a hold of a oscilloscope to use to monitor signals.

I'm planning on going for the annual meet at Cayuga in August. Me, another Turbo 92' MK3, a 7MGTE 84' MK2 and a 89' MR2 so far are coming from Niagara, along with my brother in his Supercharged K24 swapped 93' Honda Prelude and my friend's Non STI Turbo WRX. There is still about 3 more stray Supras and 1 other MR2 we haven't informed about the meet just yet (friend of friends), and we have 1 swapped USDM 6 spd TT MK4 as a maybe, depending if he will put it on the road by August or not. Yet I have about 12 other Supra/Turbo Lexus friends coming from all around Ontario this year as well. It should be a big turn out this year! Are you coming out for this one?

 

[dirosa]

too early to tell, but i'm hoping to. still have a lot to get done.