Ckanderson said:
really? even at the mixtures they explain 3.4oz to every 10 gal
what Octane where you using?
Check this out COOL STUFF with Acetone
- Thread starter bobiseverywhere
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really? even at the mixtures they explain 3.4oz to every 10 gal
what Octane where you using?
someone mentioned the whole Gas thing and companies would say so you purchase there gas
I have heard that Texaco had a much better gas and here is what that site had to say
The Trick is it does not say what the additives are here. i am still seaching to see if it included acetone or not anywhere
as it is for the moment, it seems that the acetone would cause you to run lean, it would be cool if someone with a wideband could verify this or not.
I have heard that Texaco had a much better gas and here is what that site had to say
The Trick is it does not say what the additives are here. i am still seaching to see if it included acetone or not anywhere
as it is for the moment, it seems that the acetone would cause you to run lean, it would be cool if someone with a wideband could verify this or not.
im gonna guess this is about making your own race gas right?
Well there used to be a Huge thread on SF about it and people tried it alot and it worked.
Toluene or Xylene which i think Xylene is rated at 116 octane and Toluene is like 114.
I forgot the mixtures to use but i think it was like 1 gal to 4 gallons of gas and mix a little ATF in there for a lubricant and some mineral spirits/deisel fuel for a cleaning agent.
i would try it.
Well there used to be a Huge thread on SF about it and people tried it alot and it worked.
Toluene or Xylene which i think Xylene is rated at 116 octane and Toluene is like 114.
I forgot the mixtures to use but i think it was like 1 gal to 4 gallons of gas and mix a little ATF in there for a lubricant and some mineral spirits/deisel fuel for a cleaning agent.
i would try it.
it's not about race gas but that is an interesting idea, it was just an interesting thing about extending your milage between fill ups. we are all wondering the adverse effects of adding Acetone to the fuel and what it will do or does. Some people are already doing this claiming good results while other claim issues and problems
i wouldn't do it, like has already been said acetone is very strong and will eat away at your fuel lines.....
on a supra you wont see much gain if at all, the reason it helps is because it vaporizes the fuel better, the turbo on our cars already helps atomize the air and provides better fuel economy when your not on the throttle.
ask yourself, is it worth it? do you want to push the limit on your 20 year old car to save a few bucks a month?
on a supra you wont see much gain if at all, the reason it helps is because it vaporizes the fuel better, the turbo on our cars already helps atomize the air and provides better fuel economy when your not on the throttle.
ask yourself, is it worth it? do you want to push the limit on your 20 year old car to save a few bucks a month?
you don't have to use it on your supra, many people here have other cars in there family that they might want to give it a try on
I would be curious of what it would do with the supra but i am tapped out so i don't really want to brake anything at the moment...lol
I'm Just Curious if the Acetone makes the car run lean or mess with the O2 Sensor anything like that, then the other factors of what it will cause to degrade or fail. Then i was interested in looking at possible other substances that would be usable other then acetone. Causing the same Brake of the surface tension of the Gas.
Not just for fuel economy but also for better performance. Since spoolme mention making your own higher octane Fuel
I would be curious of what it would do with the supra but i am tapped out so i don't really want to brake anything at the moment...lol
I'm Just Curious if the Acetone makes the car run lean or mess with the O2 Sensor anything like that, then the other factors of what it will cause to degrade or fail. Then i was interested in looking at possible other substances that would be usable other then acetone. Causing the same Brake of the surface tension of the Gas.
Not just for fuel economy but also for better performance. Since spoolme mention making your own higher octane Fuel
I wouldnt really be worried about the acetone eating away at your fuel lines when its as little as 3.4 oz to 10 gallons, the only thing I'm worried about is the fill tube.
I'm planning on trying this in my DD of which I do not care about, but to get it in safely I plan on mixing it with around 3 gallons of gas in a seperate tank first (metal one that already has the gas in it) and then adding that to 7 gallons of fuel in my car... give or take...
I'll let you guys know how it works out.
I'm planning on trying this in my DD of which I do not care about, but to get it in safely I plan on mixing it with around 3 gallons of gas in a seperate tank first (metal one that already has the gas in it) and then adding that to 7 gallons of fuel in my car... give or take...
I'll let you guys know how it works out.
I hope some people can test this out,
Zazzan the point of using it is that is breaks the surface tension of the Gas. That in theory could actually help. anyway i don't have a car to test it with unfortunately so i hope we get a few people giving this a try. I have a friend of mine who might be giving it a try
Zazzan the point of using it is that is breaks the surface tension of the Gas. That in theory could actually help. anyway i don't have a car to test it with unfortunately so i hope we get a few people giving this a try. I have a friend of mine who might be giving it a try
I would be on my DD, but if it has such ill effects that can be serious, I'm totally screwed as I travel 400 miles per week, and I don't have the time to do more research into this right now. But definetly following this thread,
bobiseverywhere said:
My skepticism comes from the fact that he rags on alcohol when alcohol is PROVEN to reduce detonation at elevated boost levels on pump gas. If acetone does the opposite of alcohol, then it will theoretically increase the possibility of detonation.
Zach said:
Well they are wrong about Alcohol but right at the same time, different alcohols different effects, there are even Alcohols and part of the gas.
If you check out the other link i put up a page or two ago, You can see what they do to increase octane numbers and it's not exactly alcohols.
well i am hoping someone who know more then me on this can chime in here. :biglaugh:
Concerning octane, xylene and toluene are used by commercial fuel blenders to increase gasoline octane, with toluene the most commonly used. They are both aromatic hydrocarbons derived from benzene...both are highly toxic. There are 3 isomers of xylene...what you see in the store is typically o-xylene...it is also the most common in making gasoline vs. toluene. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17442
You would need to go 50% toluene blended with 92 octane pump gas to get a ~100 octane blend.
Here's the math using (R+ M)/2 (or AKI...Anti Knock Index) octane number you see at the pumps in the US:
(A x gas octane) + (B x 114 or 117) / (A + B) = Octane Value
A = gallons of gas
B = gallons of toluene
114 = octane value of toluene
117 = octane value of xylene
Not too sure I'd want to go to the 50% level with this...mixing a gallon of either with a tank of 91-92 octane gas will give you ~93 octane.
Ethanol or methanol has an octane number of 101...it is an oxygenate with a ~30% lower energy content than gasoline. Methanol is similar to acetone in that it is a chemical that will attack rubber and other polymers and is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Alcohol's advantage is it has oxygen in the molecular structure and will help the combustion process.
As you can see, it takes quite a bit of an aromatic or alcohol to affect octane in a tank of gas. You have to use caution "making your own"...you can upset the gasoline formulation and increase deposits in the motor or have adverse effect on fuel system components. It is useful to increase octane as an additive to assist in preventing engine knock. Keep in mind pump gasoline already has significant amounts of aromatics in the blend and may have (depending on where you live) significant amounts of alcohol.
This brings me to acetone...it is the most chemically simple ketone, most commonly found in nail polish remover. It is a health hazard...avoid getting in the eyes...it can cause the cornea to cloud. It will attack rubber and cause polymers (like viton) to swell. However, it the concentrations we're talking here (2-3 oz to a tank of gas) it is very doubtful there would be any harm to fuel system components.
Using acetone as a fuel additive has been around for a long time...personally, I am skeptical of any big benefit. The Mechanical Engineering Department at Kettering University in Flint, MI. did a study on adding acetone to gasoline and found no benefit. Mythbusters actually did a show on this as well and came up with the same result. Like I said above though, using such a small amount is not likely to do harm either...this could easily be one of those "feel good" things that is so common, especially on the internet.
You always have to keep in mind one person giving their experience is just an anecdote. Assuming they are telling the truth as they see it, the result isn’t rigorous. I seriously doubt they took their systems apart, analyzed and measured all the components, reassembled them, used the gas/acetone mix, re-analyzed everything, and then come to their conclusion. To say that years of experience have led to no problem or produced a desired result is, in my view, like saying “well I have smoked cigarettes for 20 years and I don’t have cancer, therefore smoking doesn’t cause cancer.”
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17442
You would need to go 50% toluene blended with 92 octane pump gas to get a ~100 octane blend.
Here's the math using (R+ M)/2 (or AKI...Anti Knock Index) octane number you see at the pumps in the US:
(A x gas octane) + (B x 114 or 117) / (A + B) = Octane Value
A = gallons of gas
B = gallons of toluene
114 = octane value of toluene
117 = octane value of xylene
Not too sure I'd want to go to the 50% level with this...mixing a gallon of either with a tank of 91-92 octane gas will give you ~93 octane.
Ethanol or methanol has an octane number of 101...it is an oxygenate with a ~30% lower energy content than gasoline. Methanol is similar to acetone in that it is a chemical that will attack rubber and other polymers and is mildly corrosive to aluminum. Alcohol's advantage is it has oxygen in the molecular structure and will help the combustion process.
As you can see, it takes quite a bit of an aromatic or alcohol to affect octane in a tank of gas. You have to use caution "making your own"...you can upset the gasoline formulation and increase deposits in the motor or have adverse effect on fuel system components. It is useful to increase octane as an additive to assist in preventing engine knock. Keep in mind pump gasoline already has significant amounts of aromatics in the blend and may have (depending on where you live) significant amounts of alcohol.
This brings me to acetone...it is the most chemically simple ketone, most commonly found in nail polish remover. It is a health hazard...avoid getting in the eyes...it can cause the cornea to cloud. It will attack rubber and cause polymers (like viton) to swell. However, it the concentrations we're talking here (2-3 oz to a tank of gas) it is very doubtful there would be any harm to fuel system components.
Using acetone as a fuel additive has been around for a long time...personally, I am skeptical of any big benefit. The Mechanical Engineering Department at Kettering University in Flint, MI. did a study on adding acetone to gasoline and found no benefit. Mythbusters actually did a show on this as well and came up with the same result. Like I said above though, using such a small amount is not likely to do harm either...this could easily be one of those "feel good" things that is so common, especially on the internet.
You always have to keep in mind one person giving their experience is just an anecdote. Assuming they are telling the truth as they see it, the result isn’t rigorous. I seriously doubt they took their systems apart, analyzed and measured all the components, reassembled them, used the gas/acetone mix, re-analyzed everything, and then come to their conclusion. To say that years of experience have led to no problem or produced a desired result is, in my view, like saying “well I have smoked cigarettes for 20 years and I don’t have cancer, therefore smoking doesn’t cause cancer.”
oh no..this nonsense making the damn rounds again??The last time I saw this dribble get posted was when the price of gasoline was teetering at 3.00/gallon.
I have yet to see any sound physics behind any of these prepostorous claims. It sure as hell is not because it contains more energy than gasoline (more BTU), and it sure as hell does not have better laten heat of vaporization either.
Now if they said I run 100% tolune and it gives me more mileage, that would still be a load of crap as that does not have more energy per gallon than gasoline does, AGAIN. Octane wise it is higher but higher octane does not equal better gas mileage.
ps
3.4 oz in 10 gallons (1280 fl oz) equals to roughly .265% of the total volume. Reminds you of anything in particular? No? Well it should as those "octane boosters" also increase octane by a couple points!! No really a couple point on the right side of the decimal not left (92.0 to 92.2)!
Snake oil is everywhere. Just takes a little bit of logic to seperate the bullshit from the legit stuff. This is not religion
I have yet to see any sound physics behind any of these prepostorous claims. It sure as hell is not because it contains more energy than gasoline (more BTU), and it sure as hell does not have better laten heat of vaporization either.
Now if they said I run 100% tolune and it gives me more mileage, that would still be a load of crap as that does not have more energy per gallon than gasoline does, AGAIN. Octane wise it is higher but higher octane does not equal better gas mileage.
ps
3.4 oz in 10 gallons (1280 fl oz) equals to roughly .265% of the total volume. Reminds you of anything in particular? No? Well it should as those "octane boosters" also increase octane by a couple points!! No really a couple point on the right side of the decimal not left (92.0 to 92.2)!
Snake oil is everywhere. Just takes a little bit of logic to seperate the bullshit from the legit stuff. This is not religion
thanks jdub for the info
and figgie they talk about breaking the surface tension of the fuel or gas not that the acetone it self is what is causing it to be better but help in better using or more efficiently using the gas you have in your tank.
ninja edit:
Jdub the alcohol being an oxygenate is the point, it will not give you better gas millage as everyone has seen from using E85 or other alcohol based fuels. i found that info on another site totally not related to the acetone thing but more about fuels and gas. you can get better millage but not having oxygenates in the fuel. If i can find the exact section again i will quote it here for you
and figgie they talk about breaking the surface tension of the fuel or gas not that the acetone it self is what is causing it to be better but help in better using or more efficiently using the gas you have in your tank.
ninja edit:
Jdub the alcohol being an oxygenate is the point, it will not give you better gas millage as everyone has seen from using E85 or other alcohol based fuels. i found that info on another site totally not related to the acetone thing but more about fuels and gas. you can get better millage but not having oxygenates in the fuel. If i can find the exact section again i will quote it here for you
bobiseverywhere said:
not for anything but acetone is nowhere near as powerful a solvent as toluene is and Toluene does not break surface tension of the gasoline at all. Acetone is a ketone which happens to be low in the food chain of solvent especially against hydrocarbons. Don't beleive me, go on a strict protein diet with no carbs. See all that piss, mostly acetone. Aromatics, Turpentines and even Alcohol have more desiable attributes against hydrocarbon than a ketone has and none of this break surface tension 1 bit.
Breaking surface tension, sorry not happening. Being a liquid, surface tension is a resultant product of that form. If there was no surface tension, it would be a GAS and not a liquid