I have school all day today, so I'll try what aphxero said tomorrow by putting some vise grips on the return line and see what that does, maybe after putting my original fuel pressure regulator on.
Celica Swapped 1JZ - In need of Fuel Pressure Regulator?
- Thread starter SupraFreak13
- Start date
Zerocool;1267677 said:
Yea, I know the cam timing is fine...I haven't been able to find my timing light though...I'll try to find that and see if there is any descrepancy.
you realize theres a HUGE difference in how much fuel is used in idling and in wide open throttle?
it might idle fine because its in closed loop, meaning its reading off the o2 sensor. once you floor it the computer goes into open loop and stops reading the o2 sensor and goes extremely rich.
mine dives down to 10.0 a/f or lower and im on stock 370s.
this is the answer, get a tuning computer first and wideband before anything else.
it might idle fine because its in closed loop, meaning its reading off the o2 sensor. once you floor it the computer goes into open loop and stops reading the o2 sensor and goes extremely rich.
mine dives down to 10.0 a/f or lower and im on stock 370s.
this is the answer, get a tuning computer first and wideband before anything else.
I know for a fact that fpr is good, the only reason I took it off was cuz I bought thr DM afpr kit.
I needed it for my 550s, pr had to go down bc it was breaking up.
I needed it for my 550s, pr had to go down bc it was breaking up.
sounds to me like a map sensor problem. exactly how my car reacted when i had a small piece of ice in the vac hose.
do you have access to an safc?
even if you dont actually use it to tune i have found that it is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to diagnosing problems. (digital readout from the tps, tach and map)
also, my 370's are extremely loud, but work fine.
do you have access to an safc?
even if you dont actually use it to tune i have found that it is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to diagnosing problems. (digital readout from the tps, tach and map)
also, my 370's are extremely loud, but work fine.
RockPaperSwoRD;1267825 said:
That makes sense in itself, but doesn't explain why I had the exact problem with the stock 370s in.
mischief7m;1267863 said:
I've replaced the vacuum hose to the MAP. Runs right to a port towards the back of the manifold. I don't have the budget now for an SAFC, I just want to get it running properly without spending too much, which isn't working out too well.
Maybe I should have my 370's flow checked and cleaned out. Then I will at least know one part of my fuel system is good...
have you checked the ecu for leaking caps?
and i picked up my safc1 for 40 bucks. so there are cheap ones out there.
its just nice to be able to see the voltages that the sensors are putting out with the touch of a button.
and i picked up my safc1 for 40 bucks. so there are cheap ones out there.
its just nice to be able to see the voltages that the sensors are putting out with the touch of a button.
I have not checked the ECU that I have in there now...but this is the second ECU I've run the car with. When I first got the car running it would lope a lot at idle, then at certain throttle positions. I put a known good ECU in and it stopped loping. I then bought another ECU and it doesn't lope anymore, so I assumed it was good.
I haven't found a "leaking Caps" thread yet to see how to definitively check, but I'll keep searching and then check my ECU.
If I have time later I'm going to try the pinch test and see if I can either narrow it down to, or rule out, the fuel regulator. I'm going to check the fuel pump voltage also. I might take my MAP to a local shop and put it on a running 1jz and see if it causes any problems.
I haven't found a "leaking Caps" thread yet to see how to definitively check, but I'll keep searching and then check my ECU.
If I have time later I'm going to try the pinch test and see if I can either narrow it down to, or rule out, the fuel regulator. I'm going to check the fuel pump voltage also. I might take my MAP to a local shop and put it on a running 1jz and see if it causes any problems.
I made some interesting discoveries last night trying to figure out my fuel problem. I went to a local shop yesterday to test my MAP but the Supra they had their couldn't be started.
I went home to try the pinch test, put some vice grips on and tightened them until the fuel pressure rose to around 45-50psi. I got in the car and started out in 1st gear, floored it and watched the fuel pressure drop as it started to break up.
So obviously I have some restriction or problem ahead of the regulator and the fuel rail not allowing enough flow. The pump is getting fuel, and can pressurize it when the motor isn't using much gas, but once the injectors start pumping the fuel pump isn't getting enough flow to keep the pressure up. Or so I think...
I dropped the tank and pulled my custom rigged fuel pickup out(i'm not running an in tank pump, my Walbro 255 is about 10 inches of 5/16" fuel line away from the tank). The first thing I noticed is the pickup screen was semi clogged up. A few areas were so dirty I couldn't see light coming through if I held my drop light behind it. So I cleaned that off. The second problem was the 6" line that I used in place of the OEM pump wasn't fuel grade, and was deteriorating. I reinstalled the clean pickup and new line.
What I did next probably wasn't the best idea but I wanted to rule things out. I put a gas can under my car and stuck the feed and return lines into it, started the car up and was amazed at how quiet the fuel pump was when it had ample flow and wasn't straining. It used to whine so loud it almost hurt my ears when I was in the car. Now I can barely hear it over the exhaust if I stick my head by the right rear wheel well.
I thought great, reinstalled the fuel tank, hooked up the lines like I had them before, and started it up. The fuel pressure was slightly higher than before at idle, and when I disconnected the vacuum line to the regulator the pressure slowly rose to 40psi. Great.
Then problems came up again. The mechanical fuel gauge I have T'd after my fuel filter has a purge valve. Now when pressing the valve a lot of air is coming out with the fuel(never did that before dropping the tank). Can't get the air out...I think maybe somewhere between the tank and the pump there is a leak. I went for a drive on my driveway and it was breaking up under any load just like before.
It was late last night doing this, and at that point I was going to resume work today, so I drove the car down to my barn, and halfway through the barn it stalled out, and wouldn't start again.....just my luck
So this afternoon I'll be looking for further fuel problems, hopefully I can get it started long enough to drive it up to my garage again and maybe drop the tank again. There was some rust/debris in the tank, but didn't seem like it was bad enough to cause all the problems I'm having, but maybe I'll drain the tank and clean it out. I'm also going to call some muscle car friends and see if I can find a good used fuel cell so I can be rid of this 20yr old rusty tank rig.
Sorry for the long post, I wanted to be as detailed as possible so anyone still reading this thread may be able to give me some good advice. Thanks
I went home to try the pinch test, put some vice grips on and tightened them until the fuel pressure rose to around 45-50psi. I got in the car and started out in 1st gear, floored it and watched the fuel pressure drop as it started to break up.
So obviously I have some restriction or problem ahead of the regulator and the fuel rail not allowing enough flow. The pump is getting fuel, and can pressurize it when the motor isn't using much gas, but once the injectors start pumping the fuel pump isn't getting enough flow to keep the pressure up. Or so I think...
I dropped the tank and pulled my custom rigged fuel pickup out(i'm not running an in tank pump, my Walbro 255 is about 10 inches of 5/16" fuel line away from the tank). The first thing I noticed is the pickup screen was semi clogged up. A few areas were so dirty I couldn't see light coming through if I held my drop light behind it. So I cleaned that off. The second problem was the 6" line that I used in place of the OEM pump wasn't fuel grade, and was deteriorating. I reinstalled the clean pickup and new line.
What I did next probably wasn't the best idea but I wanted to rule things out. I put a gas can under my car and stuck the feed and return lines into it, started the car up and was amazed at how quiet the fuel pump was when it had ample flow and wasn't straining. It used to whine so loud it almost hurt my ears when I was in the car. Now I can barely hear it over the exhaust if I stick my head by the right rear wheel well.
I thought great, reinstalled the fuel tank, hooked up the lines like I had them before, and started it up. The fuel pressure was slightly higher than before at idle, and when I disconnected the vacuum line to the regulator the pressure slowly rose to 40psi. Great.
Then problems came up again. The mechanical fuel gauge I have T'd after my fuel filter has a purge valve. Now when pressing the valve a lot of air is coming out with the fuel(never did that before dropping the tank). Can't get the air out...I think maybe somewhere between the tank and the pump there is a leak. I went for a drive on my driveway and it was breaking up under any load just like before.
It was late last night doing this, and at that point I was going to resume work today, so I drove the car down to my barn, and halfway through the barn it stalled out, and wouldn't start again.....just my luck
So this afternoon I'll be looking for further fuel problems, hopefully I can get it started long enough to drive it up to my garage again and maybe drop the tank again. There was some rust/debris in the tank, but didn't seem like it was bad enough to cause all the problems I'm having, but maybe I'll drain the tank and clean it out. I'm also going to call some muscle car friends and see if I can find a good used fuel cell so I can be rid of this 20yr old rusty tank rig.
Sorry for the long post, I wanted to be as detailed as possible so anyone still reading this thread may be able to give me some good advice. Thanks
You said the small hose going to the pump was starting to fail . Do you think the fuel filter is cloged now ? Just a thaught .
dogdrake;1269497 said:
When I dropped the tank yesterday and pulled the fuel pick-up the 6" hose inside the tank was deteriorating and swelling. I cleaned the filter then and put a new fuel hose inside the tank.
I'm about to go work on it now. Just thinking about it now, I wonder if the suction from the fuel pump could be closing off the small flexible line that's in the tank going to the filter.
The first thing I'm going to check is the fuel filter in the engine bay, it could have clogged from the line in the tank deteriorating. I'm going to drop the tank again and replace that hose with a hard line, Check the in-tank filter, then I might drain and flush the tank to try and clean it up the best I can.
There is two filters in the OEM fuel line one inline screw in finner one mounted above the sub frame.
The other one is a less finner in tank screen.
If your fuel pressure drops at WOT it is one of two reasons restriction on the line feeding fuel rail or injectors open too much at wot.
I also mean restriction being the fuel pump itself fuel pump peformance might be degraded to meet the psi demand at wot with injectors flowing at full capacity.
Is your car running too rich or too lean at wot ? if its too rich its your tune
If its leaning out you need a better or new fuel pump or restriction.
The other one is a less finner in tank screen.
If your fuel pressure drops at WOT it is one of two reasons restriction on the line feeding fuel rail or injectors open too much at wot.
I also mean restriction being the fuel pump itself fuel pump peformance might be degraded to meet the psi demand at wot with injectors flowing at full capacity.
Is your car running too rich or too lean at wot ? if its too rich its your tune
If its leaning out you need a better or new fuel pump or restriction.
Ok here is what I did today.
First, pulled fuel line off the inlet of the fuel filter at the engine. Brought that out the side of the car and hooked the pump to 12V and spurts of foamy gas eventually came out. Pulled the tank and found a leak at the top of the pickup filter tube. Tightened clamp and stopped the leak, put it back together and I got a consistent solid flow of gas coming out of my pump, up to my fuel filter.
Went to start it and it ran on a few cylinders for a while. Took the plugs out and cleaned them. Now it was flooding out with the 440's in. I finally heated the plugs with a propane torch:icon_bigg and it started enough to get cleared out and was running good. Fuel pressure is around 36psi and it runs good, some black smoke at first when reving it. I took it down the street and if I do anything more than just barely crack the throttle it breaks up the same as it always did. The same as it first did with the 370cc injectors in too.
By this time it was dark and cold outside, so I'll continue tomorrow. I'm going to test the fuel flow after the filter tomorrow, and try to test my MAP sensor.
First, pulled fuel line off the inlet of the fuel filter at the engine. Brought that out the side of the car and hooked the pump to 12V and spurts of foamy gas eventually came out. Pulled the tank and found a leak at the top of the pickup filter tube. Tightened clamp and stopped the leak, put it back together and I got a consistent solid flow of gas coming out of my pump, up to my fuel filter.
Went to start it and it ran on a few cylinders for a while. Took the plugs out and cleaned them. Now it was flooding out with the 440's in. I finally heated the plugs with a propane torch:icon_bigg and it started enough to get cleared out and was running good. Fuel pressure is around 36psi and it runs good, some black smoke at first when reving it. I took it down the street and if I do anything more than just barely crack the throttle it breaks up the same as it always did. The same as it first did with the 370cc injectors in too.
By this time it was dark and cold outside, so I'll continue tomorrow. I'm going to test the fuel flow after the filter tomorrow, and try to test my MAP sensor.
For the first time I feel like I made some forward progress today, if only a little. I can now get the car to go into boost at low RPMS while driving without it breaking up. I'm getting good fuel flow through the fuel filter to the motor. Looks to me like a good solid flow. If I'm in 3rd or 4th gear below 2000rpm and get on the gas it will get to around 3psi boost, then once the RPMs climb and the motor sucks more fuel it seems like the pump can't keep up and the pressure drops off, making the engine break up and sputter.
I found some MAP sensor voltage/pressure graphs and my MAP tested perfectly, so I know the MAP is good. I swapped my ECU's and they both do the exact same thing. Once I get my timing light from my friend tonight I'll check that tomorrow.
Now I'm thinking maybe my fuel pump isn't flowing the volume that it should. Either that, or the hard line inside my tank is small enough to be restricting flow. Tomorrow I might compare the flow out of the fuel filter with the pump hooked to the tank, then disconnect the line from the tank to the pump, and put it into some gas with no resistance, and see if it increases the flow out of the filter. If it flows more without the tank lines, I'll be getting some a new, larger line made to replace the hard OEM fuel pickup lines.
I found some MAP sensor voltage/pressure graphs and my MAP tested perfectly, so I know the MAP is good. I swapped my ECU's and they both do the exact same thing. Once I get my timing light from my friend tonight I'll check that tomorrow.
Now I'm thinking maybe my fuel pump isn't flowing the volume that it should. Either that, or the hard line inside my tank is small enough to be restricting flow. Tomorrow I might compare the flow out of the fuel filter with the pump hooked to the tank, then disconnect the line from the tank to the pump, and put it into some gas with no resistance, and see if it increases the flow out of the filter. If it flows more without the tank lines, I'll be getting some a new, larger line made to replace the hard OEM fuel pickup lines.
aphxero;1271032 said:
Yea, I was looking at a spare pickup I had and the lines are the same ID as all the braided steel hose I'm using, so that shouldn't be a problem. Now I'm thinking maybe the intake filter could be restricting the flow, but I'm not sure. It's the OEM in tank filter from the 1984 celica, which wasn't meant to flow any more fuel than the stock 22-RE could suck down. Or maybe the 6 inch flexible hose inside the tank(that I didn't replace) is sucking closed.
Today I think I'm going to hard wire the fuel pump right to the battery, in case it's losing voltage when the engine is under load or something.
This is my first motor swap, and I had a friend do most of the wiring to get the motor running, so I'm not even sure how the fuel pump is wired...
thanks everyone for giving me ideas and direction...I'm sure it's going to be something stupid causing all this problem.