Castrol 20W50 Syntec Blend in 7MGTE been running fine no problem
- Thread starter al lewis
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You do not want to run a xxW-50 in this motor - that is unless you heavily modified the oil system to handle the thick oil. It does not flow well at all cold, even in a warm climate. If you want to know more, read Motor Oil 101 in my sig.
I run Castrol Syntec 20W-50. I love it, I honestly don't believe in the "thin oil" myths. To each their own. Run a good quality synthetic, with a good filter and you'll be fine either way. Personally, I like to run thicker oil to give some more cushion between the bearings. I have seen numerous engines spin rod bearings due to too thin of oil, never the other way around.
This is the exact oil I use. It came right behind Amsoil in a recent test.
This is the exact oil I use. It came right behind Amsoil in a recent test.
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Alec;1622168 said:
There is no such thing as a "thin oil myth" - everything in this section is based on fact. Now Alec walzes in and based on his vast knowledge and extensive experience with motor oil says a thick oil is THE way to go. Nevermind that numerous studies, the SAE, car makers, and even NASCAR point at the lighter weight oils are far better for your engine...doesn't matter that the 7M, 1JZ, and 2JZ were designed for a 30W multigrade either. If Alec uses a 20W-50, then it must be the best! No facts required at all, if Alec does it it must be ok!
Alec;1622341 said:
There's a saying: Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not. Based on the above statements, I am leaning toward the latter. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself before you end up looking foolish (not to mention what you're doing to your motor). I will warn you, if you post again in this thread I highly suggest you provide some back-up data. I have in many, many posts here and in the other sections. If you don't, I promise you that you will indeed look like the latter in the above saying.
Alec;1622356 said:
Poodles is correct - a syn oil is better (esp from a longevity view), but it's the viscosity the engine was designed for that matters.
Good decision - you are well on your way toward a public humilation.
Of course it's "acceptable" - it's not "recommended" and it is not the grade that Toyota designed the engine for (as stated).
In later tech changes, Toyota is going with the 20W multigrades in current engines for fuel economy.
In later tech changes, Toyota is going with the 20W multigrades in current engines for fuel economy.
Dud … Show me an oil analysis that proves what you say Mr Oil Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration. Don’t tell me what your assumptions are based on the info you have, show data that support your claims..... 
and I will gladly shut the fuck up.
Lol Jdud I said acceptable on purpose........ Just for your to say its not recommended.... We have had our discussions in the past... In the TSRM it clearly says "recommended" ...... Its in the TSRM so I am not sure what you meant when you said what the motors were not designed for it. You cant argue that its was not recommended.... I do agree that oils have come along way so people should adapt to the information..... the world was once flat/square but today we know better.
I like thick oils in the summer but you hate the idea. When will you back your claims with any hard facts? I know how things are suppose to work in theory, but again you have to show hard facts on the wear on engine due to oil viscosity...... Show me an oil analysis that proves what you say Mr Oil Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration, or you are no different than him.
Sounds like a fucking political debate! Where is the actual data? Stop giving educated assumptions. Science is very specific, its important to learn the importance of checking the validity and accuracy of information obtained from research. Where is the actual research data on the wear and tear on the motors with different viscosity under similar conditions?
and I will gladly shut the fuck up.Lol Jdud I said acceptable on purpose........ Just for your to say its not recommended.... We have had our discussions in the past... In the TSRM it clearly says "recommended" ...... Its in the TSRM so I am not sure what you meant when you said what the motors were not designed for it. You cant argue that its was not recommended.... I do agree that oils have come along way so people should adapt to the information..... the world was once flat/square but today we know better.
I like thick oils in the summer but you hate the idea. When will you back your claims with any hard facts? I know how things are suppose to work in theory, but again you have to show hard facts on the wear on engine due to oil viscosity...... Show me an oil analysis that proves what you say Mr Oil Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration, or you are no different than him.
Sounds like a fucking political debate! Where is the actual data? Stop giving educated assumptions. Science is very specific, its important to learn the importance of checking the validity and accuracy of information obtained from research. Where is the actual research data on the wear and tear on the motors with different viscosity under similar conditions?
Like I said, I'm done with this thread. I have better things to do than start an Internet war over oil. Believe what you want, I'll believe what I want.
Go ahead, keep pushing your thin oil. I'll believe the engine builders over at Sound Performance and Apex machine who have been building these motors for over 20 years, and for you to say they don't know what oil to use is just comedic and foolish.
So thanks for the laugh!
Go ahead, keep pushing your thin oil. I'll believe the engine builders over at Sound Performance and Apex machine who have been building these motors for over 20 years, and for you to say they don't know what oil to use is just comedic and foolish.
So thanks for the laugh!
bountykilla0118;1622370 said:Dud … Show me an oil analysis that proves what you say Mr Oil Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration. Don’t tell me what your assumptions are based on the info you have, show data that support your claims.....
Lol Jdud I said acceptable on purpose........ Just for your to say its not recommended.... We have had our discussions in the past... In the TSRM it clearly says "recommended" ...... Its in the TSRM so I am not sure what you meant when you said what the motors were not designed for it. You cant argue that its was not recommended.... I do agree that oils have come along way so people should adapt to the information..... the world was once flat/square but today we know better.
I like thick oils in the summer but you hate the idea. When will you back your claims with any hard facts? I know how things are suppose to work in theory, but again you have to show hard facts on the wear on engine due to oil viscosity...... Show me an oil analysis that proves what you say Mr Oil Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Filtration, or you are no different than him.
Sounds like a fucking political debate! Where is the actual data? Stop giving educated assumptions. Science is very specific, its important to learn the importance of checking the validity and accuracy of information obtained from research. Where is the actual research data on the wear and tear on the motors with different viscosity under similar conditions?
Try reading this entire section of the forums. It's been brought up tons of times already.
Alec;1622371 said:
I distinctly remember talking to you on flashchat a while back about the info they were feeding you, and just how utterly WRONG it was. Also, you can run thick oils if you BUILD THE ENGINE FOR IT. IJ ran very thick oil, but he opened up the flow of the system and opened up some of the tolerances. He knew exactly what he was doing. Without those mods (which you DON'T have) you're doing nothing more than restricting flow.
Its has been talked about and that means nothing ..... from a science stand point nothing has been proven. Pinky I am always down for learning please show me where I missed the actual data so that I can continue to learn more! (Pinky = pink poodle from an old picture lol)
Alec, Jdub and Poodles are we really going to argue .... or fucking debate .... when you argue you stop learning from happening.
Alec you said something important, you said they build the motors ok cool can you do me a favor and ask them would they run the same oil in a stock motor? I am interested in learning what they have to say about that.
Poodles and Jdub ..... WHERE IS THE DATA to support your claims. I have seen the cold flow comparisons and that’s it. If you only state why you feel a certain way without data ....... there is a word for that.
Alec you said something important, you said they build the motors ok cool can you do me a favor and ask them would they run the same oil in a stock motor? I am interested in learning what they have to say about that.
Poodles and Jdub ..... WHERE IS THE DATA to support your claims. I have seen the cold flow comparisons and that’s it. If you only state why you feel a certain way without data ....... there is a word for that.
Bounty - What I say is based on fluid dynamics...there is a ton of info on it. Flow is directly affected by viscosity - that is physics and there is no debate. A 20W-50 oil cold has over twice the viscosity of a 0W-30 cold...as I have told many people, simply take a bottle of 0W-30 and a bottle of 20W-50 and pour each on a cookie sheet on a 30 deg incline. The results are obvious and this is science/physics. Under pressure, the effect is even worse due to fluid friction from the higher viscosity - again this is a fact based on fluid dynamics. If you want to dig deeper, take a course on fluid dynamics (like I did) and then go to work designing piping systems (like I did).
None of this magically changes in a engine - Poodles is again correct, if you build the motor to handle the higher viscosity have at it. That includes opening up the bearing clearances, using larger diameter oil tubing, and using an accumalator that will provide positive pressure at start. I have always said the main problem is at engine start...Duane was getting a knock on start using a thick oil. Not good no matter which way you look at it and his use was based on the recommendations of "established engine builders". I got him to use Amsoil 0W-40 - it has a viscosity cold only a bit higher than GC - the knock on start stopped.
The other side of this is viscosity when the engine is hot - all oil is spec'ed at 100 deg C for this. What people call "thin oil" (like Alec) is based on looking at the 1st number of the grade and is is way wrong - they simply do not know what they are talking about. GC is a case in point - it is a 0W-30 that has excellent cold viscosity. However, when it gets to 100 deg C, it has significantly higher viscosity that just about every other brand - it approaches a 40W viscosity hot - it is not thin by any means. All this is based on fact as well and is derived from oil data sheets and real world analysis.
No matter which way you look at it, a lower viscosity oil will flow better cold - increase the piping diameter and it flows even better. At engine start (regardless of OAT) a lower viscosity is going to provide the flow necessary for a hydrostatic bearing (i.e. rod/main bearing) to do it's job. I have posted numerous articles on engine design, rebuild, and just about every aspect of oil - to tell me to "prove it" is a bit insulting. Instead, please prove me wrong - I will welcome it. I think you will have a rather difficult time doing so.
Alec - long ago I learned to never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. It would be best for you to refrain from posting any more in this thread - your behavior is very close to trolling.
None of this magically changes in a engine - Poodles is again correct, if you build the motor to handle the higher viscosity have at it. That includes opening up the bearing clearances, using larger diameter oil tubing, and using an accumalator that will provide positive pressure at start. I have always said the main problem is at engine start...Duane was getting a knock on start using a thick oil. Not good no matter which way you look at it and his use was based on the recommendations of "established engine builders". I got him to use Amsoil 0W-40 - it has a viscosity cold only a bit higher than GC - the knock on start stopped.
The other side of this is viscosity when the engine is hot - all oil is spec'ed at 100 deg C for this. What people call "thin oil" (like Alec) is based on looking at the 1st number of the grade and is is way wrong - they simply do not know what they are talking about. GC is a case in point - it is a 0W-30 that has excellent cold viscosity. However, when it gets to 100 deg C, it has significantly higher viscosity that just about every other brand - it approaches a 40W viscosity hot - it is not thin by any means. All this is based on fact as well and is derived from oil data sheets and real world analysis.
No matter which way you look at it, a lower viscosity oil will flow better cold - increase the piping diameter and it flows even better. At engine start (regardless of OAT) a lower viscosity is going to provide the flow necessary for a hydrostatic bearing (i.e. rod/main bearing) to do it's job. I have posted numerous articles on engine design, rebuild, and just about every aspect of oil - to tell me to "prove it" is a bit insulting. Instead, please prove me wrong - I will welcome it. I think you will have a rather difficult time doing so.
Alec - long ago I learned to never argue with an idiot. They just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. It would be best for you to refrain from posting any more in this thread - your behavior is very close to trolling.
bountykilla0118;1622376 said:
I agree with you and I am curious myself. There is a lot of scientific data on the flow characteristics etc but there is no proof per say that running your type of oil will do physical damage to an engine (that i know of).
Why don't you take a comparison oil sample for us? Run the thicker oil for say 8k miles, if you use it in the summer, use it in the summer. Then the next time summer rolls around do the same thing but use say 0w30GC under the same conditions and same mileage, see which exhibits more wear. If it is a significant difference then you know that the oil played a factor. Seems to be the type of info you are looking for, and you can obtain it yourself and then post your findings. If the thicker oil shows no significant increase in wear then you know that just because it has a higher viscosity that doesn't mean it will cause more engine wear. I would be curious to see the results.
Roger that ... JDub.... now other people can learn as well..... This a reason why I prefer suprmania over supraforums. I used to run 20-50 however now I am 10-40 guy in the summer and 5-30 in the winter. I am open to try to GC in the middle of the winter in Atlanta..... Bc of how the info was given to me from you.
Good shit! Hopefully Alec will do some homework also and share the info ...... or something of that nature. I wonder what is the data that those shops go off of beside the fact that it worked ok for them in the past?
Good shit! Hopefully Alec will do some homework also and share the info ...... or something of that nature. I wonder what is the data that those shops go off of beside the fact that it worked ok for them in the past?
Usually it has something to do with the fact that higher weight oils have all kinds of symptom curing benefits. They produce higher oil pressure, mask the sound of failing rod bearings, and even leak less on the driveway when parked! How can an oil that produces these results not be better?bountykilla0118;1622422 said:
The problem with this approach is that they haven't cured the problem, just made it appear less severe. More oil pressure isn't necessarily a good thing, as witnessed by bearings that have been blasted with too much pressure. The fact that you can't *hear* that rod knock anymore doesn't mean it's fixed, it just means that when it finally does go, chances are it's going to be a lot more catastrophic. Less leaks is nice and all, but really what needs to happen is replacing the seals that are leaking.
CyFi6;1622421 said:
The only problem with that is now that you've run the thicker oil the bearings might have worn more from the higher pressure and the lack of flow on cold start ups, so when you switch to the thinner oil it might have more of a knock because the bearings were ruined with an overly thick oil. Thus continueing the the thick oil myth.
Edit: Ive ran gc for almost 3 years now and im glad i have. I knew the difference on cold start ups right away as the motor almost sounded like it was hot. No diesel like sound where its starving for oil until it warms up.