Car not starting randomly? READ THIS (30 Amp Starter Relay Mod)

[ValgeKotkas]

I went to local electricians and they said, after trying to ''fix'' the problem (changed wires, starter should be fine too), that probably the cause is the part where te car key goes (ignition lock??). Changed that and I still have the problem. They also made me a wire directly from the starter (?), so I can fire it up from the engine compartment (connect the wire with + from the battery).
I'm sick of trying to start it from the lock and failing, then running out of the car and connecting wires...
JJ, help us please Or I have to go find a relay somewhere locally :nono: and try out Ideal's mod.

 

[jugodegolf]

I went to local electricians and they said, after trying to ''fix'' the problem (changed wires, starter should be fine too), that probably the cause is the part where te car key goes (ignition lock??). Changed that and I still have the problem. They also made me a wire directly from the starter (?), so I can fire it up from the engine compartment.
I'm sick of trying to start it from the lock and failing, then running out of the car and connecting wires...
JJ, help us please Or I have to go find a relay somewhere locally :nono: and try out Ideal's mod.

V I too took mine in. Instructed them to check battery and all connections. Told me it was my ignition assymbly need to be replaced. Well we will probably hear from Jetjock and hopefully solve this very frustrating problem. It is soo embarassing when your car doesn't start.:3d_frown:

 

[Boosted Supra]

Ok, I know I'm probably late with this but, I ran mine differently.

From Starter to remote momentary switch
From momentary switch to pos (+) battery

Works everytime, only problem is that the car will still crank even though the key is not in the ignition, but it will not start. Solution is finding a power source only when key is turned to "ON". This is easy but I've been so lazy nowadays. I've had starter problems since 2001, been wired this way since and no problems whatsoever.

 

[ValgeKotkas]

^What happens if you hit the switch when the car's running?
I assume I have the same setup. Wanted to put a switch there too, but though what'd happen if I accidentally touch when driving or other ''unwanted'' situations.

 

[OneJArpus]

im going to try this if it works it works if it doesnt then i need a new starter

 

[bigaaron]

First, check the battery voltage across the battery terminals when you crank the starter. If it drops below about 11v when cranking you might have a bad battery or alternator. It should be about 13.2-14.5 volts with the engine running, if it stays at 12v even with the engine running then check the alternator wiring and alternator.

Next check for voltage drop from the ground terminal on the battery to the engine block. Bad grounds cause problems. Put the volt meter from the block to the negative terminal on the battery, it should read only about .01v-.1v when cranking the starter. Any higher then that and you have bad battery connections or wiring.

Next check the voltage on the 10awg wire going to the starter solenoid and try to crank the starter with the key. If the voltage doesn't drop below about 11 volts when you do that (with a fully charged battery of course), then the relay isn't going to solve the problem. Do the same test on the thick battery wire going to the starter.

If the starter makes a sound like it is spinning but not cranking the engine, then the starter gear is stuck and it's not pushing out when the solenoid is energized. That happens on 1jz starters often because they have been sitting for long periods of time, plus being in the ocean air during delivery.

 

[ValgeKotkas]

Starter spinning? How's that sound? If I turn the key and hold it there it'll first click and then I hear a slight buzz coming from somewhere.

 

[bigaaron]

Starter spinning? How's that sound? If I turn the key and hold it there it'll first click and then I hear a slight buzz coming from somewhere.

Do the tests I was talking about first.

 

[Justin]

Ok, I know I'm probably late with this but, I ran mine differently.

From Starter to remote momentary switch
From momentary switch to pos (+) battery

Works everytime, only problem is that the car will still crank even though the key is not in the ignition, but it will not start. Solution is finding a power source only when key is turned to "ON". This is easy but I've been so lazy nowadays. I've had starter problems since 2001, been wired this way since and no problems whatsoever.

I took a headlight washer switch out of an 87/88 and wired it to a relay. 85 and 86 go to ground and ignition. This way the button will only engage my starter when the key is in the ignition position.



JetJock. What do you suggest as far as diagnosing the true problem. As I said in my prior post, I have a hard time believing that the wire is just old. ESPECIALLY since I have a brand frickin new wiring harness.

I tested voltage at the starter when it will just click and I get 12 volts. Honestly, I don't know what else to test. I've gone through and fixed everything ( I wish ) the P.O. fucked up.

(S)he had an aftermarket alarm poorly installed using butt connectors. All the ignition wires were green and corroded and nasty. I replaced the lock cylinder, and the ignition harness that bolts to the back of the lock cylinder.

I have tested the starter relay in the pass. kick panel. When I pulled it out I found someone had written BAD in big red letters on the relay and had permanently connected 87 and 30 (Assuming the toyota relay uses the same nomenclature as Bosch relays).

I have bypassed my clutch switch for three reasons. MY factory alarm is still functional, however it never gets armed due to my superior aftermarket alarm.


I am out of places to turn. I would really rather fix this problem the correct way than use my little setup to start when my car won't, but unless someone can provide another place to turn, I am out of ideas.

I thought about running a new wire from my ignition switch to where the body harness and ECU harness join behind the glove box, but in essence, its doing the same thing and bypassing the original problem, not solving it.

 

[Boosted Supra]

^What happens if you hit the switch when the car's running?
I assume I have the same setup. Wanted to put a switch there too, but though what'd happen if I accidentally touch when driving or other ''unwanted'' situations.

It'll just rev the starter gear. I suggest you put the switch somewhere out of hands way, like next to the fog light switch. I have mine all the way to the right on the fog light switch panel, it's close to the left side of the steering column (out of hands way).

 

[Boosted Supra]

I took a headlight washer switch out of an 87/88 and wired it to a relay. 85 and 86 go to ground and ignition. This way the button will only engage my starter when the key is in the ignition position.

What relay did you use?

 

[tok]

i'd like to do this mod but do you need to lift the car to get at the starter wires?

 

[jugodegolf]

First, check the battery voltage across the battery terminals when you crank the starter. If it drops below about 11v when cranking you might have a bad battery or alternator. It should be about 13.2-14.5 volts with the engine running, if it stays at 12v even with the engine running then check the alternator wiring and alternator.

Next check for voltage drop from the ground terminal on the battery to the engine block. Bad grounds cause problems. Put the volt meter from the block to the negative terminal on the battery, it should read only about .01v-.1v when cranking the starter. Any higher then that and you have bad battery connections or wiring.

Next check the voltage on the 10awg wire going to the starter solenoid and try to crank the starter with the key. If the voltage doesn't drop below about 11 volts when you do that (with a fully charged battery of course), then the relay isn't going to solve the problem. Do the same test on the thick battery wire going to the starter.

If the starter makes a sound like it is spinning but not cranking the engine, then the starter gear is stuck and it's not pushing out when the solenoid is energized. That happens on 1jz starters often because they have been sitting for long periods of time, plus being in the ocean air during delivery.

Thank you sir!

 

[Justin]

What relay did you use?

 

[tok]

just want to confirm something before i try this.

after looking up TSRM, it looks like there are 2 wires that goto the starter. the first one is the positive battery. the second is the "terminal 50" connector.

do i remove the "terminal 50" connector from the starter and connect it to the relay?

thx.

 

[dragracer]

The way I look at it is this:

Doing this= $15 and maybe an hour of time if you suck at wiring.
Finding the "real" problem as you put it: Probably $$$$ if you bring it somewhere OR lots of time to not only find the problem but to fix it.

And whos to say its not the "real" problem. Lets see I bypassed my WIRES and what do you know my car starts every time now.

So what else could it be when I bypass the wires and it works? And no Im not going to spend the hours of time to redo my wire harness when this works just the same IF NOT BETTER then the stock setup.

My car had the same problem for several months. Gradually got worse. I too checked all the components in the starting circuit. All was good. So I went ahead and replaced starter with a new Toyota starter. Still wasnt working. Yes, I had a circuit weak point. Wiring. Yes, I do know how to check wiring and electrical circuits. The black/blue wire to the starter was bad about six inches from the starter. Sheathing was cracked and wire had corroded. So wiring can go bad. Ever look at your knock sensor wires?

If Idealsupra repair corrected the problem. Whats the harm. Its not like he was hacking up the factory wiring.

Factory starters rarely go bad. I own five Supras for the last 15 years, not one bad. My friend is a master mechanic at Toyota for over twenty years. He has RARELY seen one go bad.

Bottom line, if the starter circuit components check out (which there isnt much), then theres nothing wrong with this fix.

Rich

 

[SilverSupraT]

I almost didn't open this because I thought it was a problem and not a write-up. I read almost every write-up out there because, well, you can never have TOO much knowledge. I highly recommend doing this mod. It was already on my car when I got it and has never let me down.

 

[bigaaron]

Factory starters rarely go bad. I own five Supras for the last 15 years, not one bad. My friend is a master mechanic at Toyota for over twenty years. He has RARELY seen one go bad.

Rich

I've seen about 20 bad 1jz starters, but only one or two bad 7m starters. It's usually a wiring issue more often then a bad starter.

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

In my case the relay was infact bad if you flicked it with your finger it would make contact or if you squeezed it.

Wire it direct through the starter to the ignition if the ignition is bad then add a push button starter my brother went this route he used to work for DSM before toyota but when he was there he bought a factory viper push button start switch.

The turning over of the engine with a push button start switch wont allow crooks to jack your car because your ecu needs the Ign/Acc key signal from the ign switch to power the ecu.

I agree with aaron about this also. here is the canadian/american version wire it like this.

Fallow the wire path of the canada (automatic) model & MT on at the NSW on the ST signal here is the proof.

 

[tok]

Great mod. haven't had any startup issues since. it still doesn't always start on the first crank but at least it's not leaving me stranded.