Quin;1082079 said:Sometimes have a somewhat similar problem but it's just due to a crappy connection. Upgrade time
Nice write up.
Do et now.
I did it today. Cost me $12.. so worth it for the piece of mind.
Car not starting randomly? READ THIS (30 Amp Starter Relay Mod)
- Thread starter Idealsupra
- Start date
Do et now.
I did it today. Cost me $12.. so worth it for the piece of mind.
I hate accepting the fact that the wiring just got old. That seems like a cop-out but I have not been able to find any other solution.
I wired up a relay as well (slightly different) but its worked every time. I also have a brand new engine harness. I also have a brand new ignition switch harness.
Frustrating
I wired up a relay as well (slightly different) but its worked every time. I also have a brand new engine harness. I also have a brand new ignition switch harness.
Frustrating
Did the relay mod today and took pics, worked like a charm.
Test car: 1988 Toyota Supra NA/AT chassis converted to 89-92 Turbo 5spd AKA Wiring nightmare.
PICS:
Materials:
Starter wire from the igniton switch (Black with white stripe on my model):
Brown starter clip:
My chosen mounting location (Cruise control removed due to NA->T, Good spot for my coolant filter):
Right after my car started on the first try for the first time... ever:
I mounted the ground right under the body of the relay (Just make sure you can see metal where you mount the ground), and ran the positive straight to the battery. Overall this only cost me $3 (Price of the relay with my employee discount at napa) since I already had the other stuff laying around. SO worth it.
Thank you to the original poster, you saved me TONS of time and money.
HIGHLY reccomended.
Test car: 1988 Toyota Supra NA/AT chassis converted to 89-92 Turbo 5spd AKA Wiring nightmare.
PICS:
Materials:
Starter wire from the igniton switch (Black with white stripe on my model):
Brown starter clip:
My chosen mounting location (Cruise control removed due to NA->T, Good spot for my coolant filter):
Right after my car started on the first try for the first time... ever:
I mounted the ground right under the body of the relay (Just make sure you can see metal where you mount the ground), and ran the positive straight to the battery. Overall this only cost me $3 (Price of the relay with my employee discount at napa) since I already had the other stuff laying around. SO worth it.
Thank you to the original poster, you saved me TONS of time and money.
HIGHLY reccomended.
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The other issue is basically that the 1jz starter is much smaller then a 7m starter and is prone to failure. Not the contacts, but the operation of the starter gear. The relay is only going to solve peoples starting issues on maybe 1/4 of the cars, the rest are going to need a replacement starter.
This will definitely undo my car's current "attention whore" status for startups! Thanks Idealsupra for the write up!!!
IJ.;1081771 said:They're available from our local parts store Jay
Makes life so much easier.
I made a bracket that bolts under the brake pipe bracket by the starter and bolted a Relay Socket to it then if a relay dies it's a simple plugNplay change.
Anyway you'd be willing to ship one out this way? It'd be prepaid, of course and the same as JustAnotherVictim's address.
Also, just grabbed a combo setup from Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280247816092
$7.00 Shipped for both parts
I'd like to add, if I may, that it is a very very good idea to fuse the line right near the positive battery terminal. Even if the relay has a built-in fuse, if the relay is near the starter I'd say that's too far away. If the positive line loses its insulation for any reason (pinching, cut or melted), it'll short to ground and start your engine bay on fire unless it's fused.
Or people could fix the car right. It isn't the wiring. Never has been. At least on every car I've worked on. No surprise there since it doesn't make sense it would be. And even if the wiring was in question it can be checked in 60 seconds. I've even yanked this "improvement" off a couple of cars after offering to find the real cause and the owners never had a problem again.
It could be a number of things, but my first instinct would be a bad ground, since it still starts.
jetjock;1089008 said:
The way I look at it is this:
Doing this= $15 and maybe an hour of time if you suck at wiring.
Finding the "real" problem as you put it: Probably $$$$ if you bring it somewhere OR lots of time to not only find the problem but to fix it.
And whos to say its not the "real" problem. Lets see I bypassed my WIRES and what do you know my car starts every time now.
So what else could it be when I bypass the wires and it works? And no Im not going to spend the hours of time to redo my wire harness when this works just the same IF NOT BETTER then the stock setup.
I suppose to someone with your lack of electrical ability those are valid points. Mine was it'd take someone who knows what they're doing a quarter of an hour and wouldn't involve replacing or bypassing any wires, even in your car. As a further irony the techniques required are among the most basic in the business and can be learned by anyone in minutes. Guess you never had time.
As for "whose to say it's not the wires" how many of these have you tracked down and fixed? And do you actually think bypassing an entire circuit containing various components and multiple connections positively condemns the one part that is almost never at fault? Have you had to bypass any other "bad" wires in your car? Do you honestly believe Toyota used wire that goes bad only in this particular circuit? Maybe, just maybe, there might be another cause? A circuit weak point other than the wire itself that can be easily found and repaired, same as with 99.99% of all circuit problems? Nah....
It's not the wire Sparky. Even without having used those killer diagnostic skills of yours if you'd had any common sense you'd have already figured that out. That said it's your car so you're free to do as you like. However trying to present this as a smoking gun answer to a non-existent cause or worse, an improvement, is technical ignorance. It's nothing more than another electrical hack in a long line of electrical hacks dreamed up by "know enough to be dangerous" people who won't (or can't) fix it right.
As for "whose to say it's not the wires" how many of these have you tracked down and fixed? And do you actually think bypassing an entire circuit containing various components and multiple connections positively condemns the one part that is almost never at fault? Have you had to bypass any other "bad" wires in your car? Do you honestly believe Toyota used wire that goes bad only in this particular circuit? Maybe, just maybe, there might be another cause? A circuit weak point other than the wire itself that can be easily found and repaired, same as with 99.99% of all circuit problems? Nah....
It's not the wire Sparky. Even without having used those killer diagnostic skills of yours if you'd had any common sense you'd have already figured that out. That said it's your car so you're free to do as you like. However trying to present this as a smoking gun answer to a non-existent cause or worse, an improvement, is technical ignorance. It's nothing more than another electrical hack in a long line of electrical hacks dreamed up by "know enough to be dangerous" people who won't (or can't) fix it right.
jetjock;1096717 said:
This (and my re-satanbabied non-shifting A340E) inspired me to download all the TEWD .GIFs from CygnusX1's site, and organize them (by folder) in the same manner as the site. Uploaded it to a rar, if anyone's interested.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/22/805136/TEWD.rar
so this thread went to the shits fast.
So jetjock, what were the real problems on the cars that you yanked this mod out of?
So jetjock, what were the real problems on the cars that you yanked this mod out of?
How many times did I call or txt you with this problem..
jetjock, I would also like to know what caused this problem in the supras you fixed.. I get this problem also.
jetjock, I would also like to know what caused this problem in the supras you fixed.. I get this problem also.
jetjock, I bet you dont just work on Supras, you work on all Toyota and others also, so you probably know what I mean when I say 02-06 Toyota a\c light flashing? Im betting on same problem with the starters. Please correct me if Im wrong so that I can continue to learn in my young age.
Of course if you are going to do this mod, why pull 12v all the way back from the battery if you have a bigass cable with 12v @ the starter?
Of course if you are going to do this mod, why pull 12v all the way back from the battery if you have a bigass cable with 12v @ the starter?
I did a little bit different of a mod but this works just good.
I ran the wire from ign st directly to the starter like the canadian cars are done!
they are wired directy and if you look both the relay power and relay line feed for the starter are the same wire and it gets a ground from antitheft computer.
Meaning 100% of the current that starts the starter goes through the ignition key switch so it can handle the current wiring it directly. Again the fault is normaly the relay. or antitheft locking it out nsw etc.
most of the time its the relay thats the start issue bypassing the clutch NSW is a good idea saves the throw out bearing and crank wear when starting with out the clutch in.
I ran the wire from ign st directly to the starter like the canadian cars are done!
they are wired directy and if you look both the relay power and relay line feed for the starter are the same wire and it gets a ground from antitheft computer.
Meaning 100% of the current that starts the starter goes through the ignition key switch so it can handle the current wiring it directly. Again the fault is normaly the relay. or antitheft locking it out nsw etc.
most of the time its the relay thats the start issue bypassing the clutch NSW is a good idea saves the throw out bearing and crank wear when starting with out the clutch in.
jetjock;1089008 said:
First off I'm not here to knock anyone. If Ideal has a simpe cost efficient solution I think thats great. If you have a better solution please write it up. I'm sure most of us want the car fixed right and just need a little writeup on what/how to check for the starting problem. I will only take my car to the stealership as a last ditch effort after getting hosed time after time. I read Aarons post and I have 2 different sized used starters sitting on my shelf. I have a car that starts most of the time. All my connections are good what "REAL CAUSE" should I be looking for???