Cam Tuning Help/Info

[CajunKenny]

I am headed to the dyno this Saturday and need some insight.

I was conferring with some Dyno/Tuning Gurus in regards to tuning cams. They mentioned a couple of things that I hadn't come across in my reading nor had I heard before.

They mentioned the following:

1.) Once the cams have been tuned, timing needs to be "re-sync'd".

2.) GREAT care must be taken when adjusting the exhaust cam because it will/could drastically change engine timing.

3.) I may consider NOT tuning the exhaust cam at all.

Thoughts please!

Thanks!

 

[Van]

As regards the timing resync'd recommendation: This is a very good topic for me, as I'm getting ready to get the 7M tuned using adjustable cam gears... The following is taken from Hondata.com (w/o permission) and is information given to tuners working on a dyno tune.
"Before the cam timing is adjusted it is important to measure the ignition timing so that the ignition timing can be kept constant if the intake camshaft is altered. Otherwise the dyno runs will not reflect the differences from changing the cam timing. One trick that works with a dial back timing light is to aim the light at the marks on the inside of the cam sprockets, and change the timing light setting until the marks line up. If the intake cam is adjusted then the ignition timing can be adjusted until the marks on the cam sprockets line up, as long as the dial on the timing light is in the same position."
Then they go on to the tuning step... "Either cam may be adjusted first, but usually it is best the adjust the intake camshaft then the exhaust camshaft. Make a number of dyno runs with different cam timing, and compare the results. Usually altering the cam timing will move peaks in the torque curve around, so one setting may not be obviously better than another. Do not just look at peak figures, look at the area under the torque curve in the expected rev range of the engine (which is average power)."

I'm going to have a chat w/ the tuner about the procedure they use and recommend for my 7M, and do some more research, myself, before the actual tuning is performed.

HTH Van

 

[CajunKenny]

Thanks for the post Van.

That is good info and sort of jives with the info that I received. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around why adjusting the cams would alter engine timing. Especially Intake Cam adjustments. Being that the exhaust cam drives the CPS, I can see how adjustments there might; but, not really...

 

[Van]

I suspect you're right... That our 7Ms (using cam sensor VS crank sensor), are a different kettle of fish.:dunno:
The place I'm headed to for Dyno tuning, Forged Performance, tunes our 7Ms and JZs. Van

 

[CajunKenny]

Are you going to be talking with them anytime soon? (I don't want to hassel them if you are ) If not, I might give them a call. My dyno appointment is getting here quick and I'd like to have a handle on this before then.

 

[CajunKenny]

Does anyone else have any input?

I know that there are quite a few people running adjustable cam gears...

 

[Van]

Are you going to be talking with them anytime soon? (I don't want to hassel them if you are ) If not, I might give them a call. My dyno appointment is getting here quick and I'd like to have a handle on this before then.

This Friday AM, in fact.

 

[CajunKenny]

Any info that you would pass on would be great!

 

[Van]

I am headed to the dyno this Saturday and need some insight.

I was conferring with some Dyno/Tuning Gurus in regards to tuning cams. They mentioned a couple of things that I hadn't come across in my reading nor had I heard before.

They mentioned the following:

1.) Once the cams have been tuned, timing needs to be "re-sync'd".

2.) GREAT care must be taken when adjusting the exhaust cam because it will/could drastically change engine timing.

3.) I may consider NOT tuning the exhaust cam at all.

Thoughts please!

Thanks!

I went to Forged Performance and spoke to Jon, (their tuner), here is how he answered the questions:

1.) Once the cams have been tuned, timing needs to be "re-sync'd" Yes. Adjust the CPS and re time the ignition as usual on our car

2.) GREAT care must be taken when adjusting the exhaust cam because it will/could drastically change engine timing. That is correct, as our CPS is on that side.

3.) I may consider NOT tuning the exhaust cam at all. It is OK; just reset the timing each time the cam gear is readjusted.
He spoke of the amount of extra time and cost for what may be little improvement, but well worth seeing what can be accomplished. I'm willing to see what can be accomplished.
HTH Van

 

[CajunKenny]

Van, I greatly appreciate you posting that info!

I am still on schedule for tomorrow and will post my findings. Time won't be an issue because three of us have chipped in and have reserved the Dyno from 9am - 5 pm. That leaves plenty of time per car and my main focus is tuning the cams so I should be able to get this accomplished.

Thanks again and stay tuned for the results!

 

[suprahero]

In for results. Are you going to get a good base tune first and then start adjusting them?
I read one time that you should adjust the cam gears while only running wastegate pressure. That way you're assured of a true boost everytime and then you can adjust the boost after you have the cams dialed in. Just a thought.
I have adjustable cam gears, but they are both set to zero and have been for the last three years. I may have some power hidden in there somewhere.

 

[Van]

You're welcome.

 

[CajunKenny]

Are you going to get a good base tune first and then start adjusting them?
I read one time that you should adjust the cam gears while only running wastegate pressure. That way you're assured of a true boost everytime and then you can adjust the boost after you have the cams dialed in. Just a thought.

This is going to be my exact approach. To a 'T'!

And yes...I would say that you've got a little extra power in your pocket.

 

[CajunKenny]

I apologize that I don't have the incremental data that I planned on getting. I was having a couple problems...

Here's what data I do have:

11 psi of boost, the two base pulls were 306hp/309tq with cams set at 0.
11 psi of boost, with the intake cam advanced 2.5* yielded 312hp/317tq.

After that, the next two pulls didn't go well because the car had thrown a couple of codes. CPS code and one other one that I didn't know... So, I got off the dyno and let the next guy strap down.

I resolved the code issues, made a FP adjustment, and hooked up for a second round. At this point, time was short so I had to settle with just the one cam being adjusted.

She put down 361hp/360tq @ 16 psi. Any more boost than that, the TQ Curve suffered so I stopped there. The last time I was on this dyno, she put down 367hp/345tq @ 15 psi.

I'm not sure why I ended up with less power with more boost; but, I was happy to see the tq number come up. Based on my findings I would say that the TQ jump is due to the cam adjustment.

There is still something wrong. My power curves were the waviest out of everyone. A LOT wavier. Everyone else made crisp, clean power. I'll be hunting that issue down...

 

[Flateric]

I've seen the wavyness on my old 7M and after ALOT of time my CPS and wiring was brittle and not happy. It was a bitch to hunt this down because sometimes the sensor was giving faulty signals and sometimes not. Mix this with the poor and intermittant crispy wiring and it's a perfect arrangement for frustration.

I'm not at all missing the CPS in my 2jz setup. I fought with it so many times never knowning exactly what was causing the issues. So have a good close look at it, the plugs and their quality of connections and finally the wiring both around and inside the CPS.

It may not be your gremlin, but surely does sound like the same damned bastard.

 

[CajunKenny]

Well, there are only two things that haven't been visited on my car. The CPS and the TPS. I'll start with the CPS. I started working on this and with my coil/spark tester, I can see a missfire on 1,6.

I haven't been able to get past 16 psi on my last two dyno sessions because of one thing or another. Sigh....

 

[Van]

Well, there are only two things that haven't been visited on my car. The CPS and the TPS. I'll start with the CPS. I started working on this and with my coil/spark tester, I can see a missfire on 1,6.

I haven't been able to get past 16 psi on my last two dyno sessions because of one thing or another. Sigh....

Hi Kenny,
Have you checked your plug wires for resistance, or in my 7M's case plug wires #1 & 6 were oil soaked from a leak around the valve cover gasket, into the the valley. After I cleaned the oil off the plugs, wires and valley with break clean, the misfire went away. HTH Van

 

[CajunKenny]

Plug wires are new. I've experienced that break-up caused by oil in the galley too. It's very annoying! I had just installed new plugs that morning before my appointment and there was no oil present. I wish my woes were that simple of a fix. Great suggestion though!

When is your dyno session scheduled for?

Hopefully, you'll be able to get your cams tuned in.

 

[Van]

The tune up is set for Friday AM, Oct 29th.

 

[CajunKenny]

Excellent! You should have more/better than I have to post up.

With your build, I would expect to see a nice torque increase.