Brake upgrade question

yhatzee89

Joe Yantz
Aug 31, 2012
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San Antonio, TX
Grandavi;1997691 said:
(just off the top of my head.. aren't Celica brakes about 75% the size of the MK3 brakes?)

I was under the impression that they were 4 piston?

tlo86;1997701 said:
bbk or nothing. if its a track car why cheap out on the most important part?
89 nissan 300zx 4 piston calipers. 120$ a caliper.
but why spend all of that time when you could just do it right?

Again, 16" rims. Night pager kit needs 17" and doesn't properly use all of the disc. And how is upgrading it not doing it right? I simply don't want a overly large BBK (more like a MediumBK) but I do want an upgrade, I need a middle ground that fits under a 16" rim

1-2clutch-u;1997707 said:
dont think the alltrak brakes will fit. Im like 90% sure they use big brake lines. I think the mk3 has m10 and I had a buddy with a trc that was complaing about making 1/4 in brake line. I never seen it for myself but hey get messy make mistakes and waist money (if it fits or not) then love your car but Im kinda sure If it would have been better toyota and not too much more $$ toyota would have did it stock.

An answer to my original question! I'm not overly worried about the difference line size simply because I will be upgrading the MC as well. I have the problem in my area of having crap for salvage yards so I can't just go out and find a set and see if it bolts up. I know Toyota prob would have done it already but I'm hoping by branching out to other years/models I can expand my options.

akito;1997753 said:
If you don't like to go with the upgraded pads/ rotors/lines and what not, the other 2 alternatives would be the nightpager bracket and 300zx calipers with 350z track rotors paired with some nice pads or downward cobra set up. I've seen both set ups in person and the doward kit is amazing.

I was originally looking at the Cobra BBK until I realized it needed 17" rims as well. Night pager kit never impressed me much once I realized the cost and how much disc area wasn't used.

As you all can see, my search has not been an easy one
 

yhatzee89

Joe Yantz
Aug 31, 2012
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San Antonio, TX
figgie;1997765 said:
As was mentioned.

you either do it right or don't do it at all.

In case of AutoX. BBK. end of story. The wheels are to small? Sorry, that is an excuse. Should have thought about that prior to purchasing said wheels.

You either do it right the first time or you will have plenty of time and invest MORE money to do it again until it is right.

I actually haven't purchased the wheels yet (moving and don't want to haul the extra weight) but those are the rims I want for my car.

And there are plenty of people who autoX with the stock brakes with better pad/lines/fluid/rotors, so why is a minor upgrade to the calipers the "wrong" thing to do? I will of course do all those same upgrades plus one more, yet that will my my car somehow less worthy? Next time you change your pads I better see you swap to a full AZP BBK, and the next time you fill up it better be 120 octane race fuel (because "you either do it right or don't do it at all.")

I want a middle ground, because its what I want. Stop questioning my reasoning and just help me find an answer. In the end I already know that the AZP, nightpager, and Cobra BBKs are better, but I don't want those, so why keep telling me to use them?
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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Twin Cities, Minnesot-ah
yhatzee89;1997770 said:
I actually haven't purchased the wheels yet (moving and don't want to haul the extra weight) but those are the rims I want for my car.

And there are plenty of people who autoX with the stock brakes with better pad/lines/fluid/rotors, so why is a minor upgrade to the calipers the "wrong" thing to do? I will of course do all those same upgrades plus one more, yet that will my my car somehow less worthy? Next time you change your pads I better see you swap to a full AZP BBK, and the next time you fill up it better be 120 octane race fuel (because "you either do it right or don't do it at all.")

I want a middle ground, because its what I want. Stop questioning my reasoning and just help me find an answer. In the end I already know that the AZP, nightpager, and Cobra BBKs are better, but I don't want those, so why keep telling me to use them?

I am not. what I will tell you that those AutoX folks on stock sized rotors, regardless of pads will see massive amount of brake fade. That is the rotors fault not the pads. Basic physics 101.

P.S. I quit sinking money into "the Black Hole" a LONG time ago.
 
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Grandavi

Active Member
Sep 25, 2008
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I think what figgie is saying... Is that your cutting corners the hard way.

I have done that and regret everytime I have. It's always been more money/cost/headache.

Found the 4 pot calipers, only knew about the 2's before. It looks like you may be trail blazing though, but doesn't look that expensive. Just getting into researching options for "better brakes" now that I am encroaching the 500 rwhp territory, hence my interest.

My big question is, if they would work and be worthwhile, why can't I find one done already. Scratching this one as a "not suitable option" for me, though.
 

Grandavi

Active Member
Sep 25, 2008
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
This thread has led me back to the Arizona (Andy) Performance BBK's he has for the MK3.. forgot about those. Pricing is amazing compared to other BBK's... plus I could keep the parking brake.. :)
 

jdmfreak

PACNW
Oct 8, 2010
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north clark co. WA.
I understand what you are saying yhatzee I have drilled/slotted rotors and good pads /new fluid and experience crazy amounts of brake fade/hot brakes if I bomb the corners near my parents place but the amount I drive that hard doesn't justify the price of a BBK (I will be getting a Arizona once I can afford it due to the power I plan on attaining, and the fact that it eventually will be tracked that has been the plan from the start, even bought 18" wheels to accommodate back when I was n/a)

The fact is if you want a better than stock braking system chances are you aren't going to be happy with the ratio of money to performance you will get without going BBK

Everyone is just trying to make sure you don't spend money on something that won't cause enough change to appease your needs, if you are set on keeping your wheels as far as I have learned from my research you won't get much better than stock calipers and top of the line pads
 

akito

Keep Laughing.You're Next
Jul 31, 2006
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Springfield/Va
If you're planning to keep the 16s then there isn't much out there other than the previa 2 pots calipers and better rotors ( if this is considered a worth while upgrade). I'm not sure but the nightpager kit MIGHT work if you use the 300zx rotors and not the 350z track rotors...which isn't much of an upgrade at all since the 300zx rotors are actually smaller than the supra's. Most people upgrade their wheels to accommodate their brake set ups and there's nothing wrong with what you want but it limits to what you can use.
 

yhatzee89

Joe Yantz
Aug 31, 2012
977
0
16
San Antonio, TX
figgie;1997771 said:
I am not. what I will tell you that those AutoX folks on stock sized rotors, regardless of pads will see massive amount of brake fade. That is the rotors fault not the pads. Basic physics 101.

P.S. I quit sinking money into "the Black Hole" a LONG time ago.

This is something I've yet to work around without a BBK, the size isn't that bad, but the thickness of the stock rotors leaves much to be desired

Grandavi;1997783 said:
I think what figgie is saying... Is that your cutting corners the hard way. I have done that and regret everytime I have. It's always been more money/cost/headache.

Found the 4 pot calipers, only knew about the 2's before. It looks like you may be trail blazing though, but doesn't look that expensive. Just getting into researching options for "better brakes" now that I am encroaching the 500 rwhp territory, hence my interest.

My big question is, if they would work and be worthwhile, why can't I find one done already. Scratching this one as a "not suitable option" for me, though.

I'm not trying to cut corners, I'm trying to reach my goals without overshooting them.

I realize that what I'm doing is considered unconventional, but I'm hoping to accomplish finding a middle ground that will give me and others a new option without goin balls to the wall on a brake system

My fear also is that it won't work due to the lack of info of it. But I figure its better to ask and find out for sure than pass up an opportunity.

jdmfreak;1997790 said:
I understand what you are saying yhatzee I have drilled/slotted rotors and good pads /new fluid and experience crazy amounts of brake fade/hot brakes if I bomb the corners near my parents place but the amount I drive that hard doesn't justify the price of a BBK (I will be getting a Arizona once I can afford it due to the power I plan on attaining, and the fact that it eventually will be tracked that has been the plan from the start, even bought 18" wheels to accommodate back when I was n/a)

The fact is if you want a better than stock braking system chances are you aren't going to be happy with the ratio of money to performance you will get without going BBK

Everyone is just trying to make sure you don't spend money on something that won't cause enough change to appease your needs, if you are set on keeping your wheels as far as I have learned from my research you won't get much better than stock calipers and top of the line pads

That is why I am looking into a factory replacement option, so as to reduce the cost:performance ratio.

I appreciate the thoughtfullness of trying to keep me from wasting my money, but I have considered my options and this is the best option for me.

akito;1997831 said:
If you're planning to keep the 16s then there isn't much out there other than the previa 2 pots calipers and better rotors ( if this is considered a worth while upgrade). I'm not sure but the nightpager kit MIGHT work if you use the 300zx rotors and not the 350z track rotors...which isn't much of an upgrade at all since the 300zx rotors are actually smaller than the supra's. Most people upgrade their wheels to accommodate their brake set ups and there's nothing wrong with what you want but it limits to what you can use.

Yes I am we'll aware of how much 16"s limit my options. It really sucks because I'm running 18"s right now and I have to downsize in order to get the style I want.
 

Grandavi

Active Member
Sep 25, 2008
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
If you got the money, there is a place in the US that makes custom MKII Style rims to your spec.. but I think its cheaper to get Work wheels... lol.

Sucks that the starions are so small, I would love an 18" set.

Didn't you at one point have the Brembo BBK for your car?
 

hvyman

Dang Dude! No Way Man.
Staff member
Apr 17, 2007
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Fullerton,CA
I brought that up already. from what isaw they were about 2600-3k. He didnt seem interested.

usually you match the wheels to fit the brakes not the brakes to fit the wheels. Cant go fast without some way of stopping.
 

Grandavi

Active Member
Sep 25, 2008
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I was referring to the original build thread. If I recall right the car had some cheap fake caps on the calipers, but thought he had already bought brembos...


I would love those...
 

yhatzee89

Joe Yantz
Aug 31, 2012
977
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16
San Antonio, TX
Yeah it had a set of endless covers on when I bought it, bought the car at midnight 3 states away and got screwed over because I did. But live and learn, all part of growing up. But now I've put together the EVO/STI rear Brembo setup, but it fits under a 16" rim.

In my experience if I'm unhappy with the look ill be unhappy with the car, so I have to do it backwards (brakes to match the wheels) vs the far easier route getting wheels that fit over a BBK. The 17" replica rims that I found were very different than the original Starion rims, they had a 2 piece style bolt pattern around the outer edge and the inner barrel was very contoured vs the smooth inner barrel of the Starions. So all this leaves me back to the realm of minor caliper upgrade instead of the preferable major upgrade in stopping power delivered by a BBK. :(

And I would love a set of 18" Starions that actually looked like Starions, I would just go full BBK if I could find a set.
 

1-2clutch-u

Member
Feb 18, 2006
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chi town and ohio
ok bro I didnt wanna get all brake nerd on you but Ill share a bit. I have the azp front 6pistion. Its nice I love it I use it to about 80% so far (need slicks to go further) but More pistons don't make better stopping distances Like everyone thinks Its just better Peddle feel and feed back. So the alltrac caliper with out a bigger rotor or some way to disperse the heat wont stop any faster. I know It seems like you have more clamping force but the stock stuff can lock the tires no prob. Try it out Pull the abs fuse (if you have it) an drive and stand on the brake pedel. Front will lock right away and the rear to follow. I guess you wanna march to your own beat and all that good stuff but really think about running all new lines and fittings alltrac calipers, rotors, bracket (if needed) and then what pad are you gonna run? I can tell you its prob not that many choices. Look at the stock mk3 choices stock like stuff <$50, sprited run stuff ebc=$100 race stuff ( pad life is on track day) =$150+.
 

yhatzee89

Joe Yantz
Aug 31, 2012
977
0
16
San Antonio, TX
Grandavi;1997940 said:
For Celica?

These are the rims I was talking about... I was seriously considering them... They are gorgeous!
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/2010/10/28/boyd-coddington-custom-17-18-inch-celica-supra-wheels/

Just never saw if they could make them 5 bolt...

No for the MKIII, I think it's 110mm
And I love those rims, but I want 5 spoke, which maybe I should call that company and see what a set would cost, it may be cheaper in the long run

1-2clutch-u;1997943 said:
ok bro I didnt wanna get all brake nerd on you but Ill share a bit. I have the azp front 6pistion. Its nice I love it I use it to about 80% so far (need slicks to go further) but More pistons don't make better stopping distances Like everyone thinks Its just better Peddle feel and feed back. So the alltrac caliper with out a bigger rotor or some way to disperse the heat wont stop any faster. I know It seems like you have more clamping force but the stock stuff can lock the tires no prob. Try it out Pull the abs fuse (if you have it) an drive and stand on the brake pedel. Front will lock right away and the rear to follow. I guess you wanna march to your own beat and all that good stuff but really think about running all new lines and fittings alltrac calipers, rotors, bracket (if needed) and then what pad are you gonna run? I can tell you its prob not that many choices. Look at the stock mk3 choices stock like stuff <$50, sprited run stuff ebc=$100 race stuff ( pad life is on track day) =$150+.

I already know that, if this doesn't work I'm going to just stick with EBC red or yellow pads and good quality brake fluid. I've already got SS lines and ill swap to the Previa calipers just for shiggles. I simply figured if there is a better bolt on option, why not go for it. It's not that I'm trying to get around buying a BBK, I'm just trying to give myself a little extra on top of the regular upgrades. I simply figured if I could have 4 piston I would be better off than with 2

And I appreciate the brake nerd share