Aristo swap giving some trouble. No codes, misfiring, more.. [Added video]

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Tomorrow I'm going to diagnose everything as best I can. I have a 21 item list of things to check.

Honestly though. I just realized.. the symptom I'm describing where the car just stops cranking for a second.. I think it's hydro lock from gasoline because I'm smelling gas HEAVILY. It all makes sense now.

That helps me because now I believe either:
a) The car is spraying too much fuel, trouble areas: FPR, what else?
b) The car is not igniting the fuel, trouble areas: Coil packs, spark plugs, ground? (could bad ecu grounds cause weak spark?)

I think the second option is the more obvious of the two, however I nabbed an FPR off a 2JZ-GE at the junkyard and maybe I'll throw it on just to notch that off the list.

 

[Radial]

hydro lock...hmm, no it must be the MAP-sensor.... I assume you have checked your Capacitors in the ECU? my 1JZ had two blown and leaking ones causing rough idle once

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

hydro lock...hmm, no it must be the MAP-sensor.... I assume you have checked your Capacitors in the ECU? my 1JZ had two blown and leaking ones causing rough idle once

It's very rare for the ECU to be blown on the Aristo, but I will check. Also, why do you feel hydro lock is so crazy? After trying to start for so long, the car literally will stop turning mid cranking ..

 

[hvyman]

If it hydro locked it wouldn't crank. As if the cylinder was filled with water it would try crank and compress and you can't compress a liquid so it would stop and not be able to crank any farther. That is unless you broke some internals which would have involved either a lot of noise or a hole in the block

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

If it hydro locked it wouldn't crank. As if the cylinder was filled with water it would try crank and compress and you can't compress a liquid so it would stop and not be able to crank any farther.

Correct. Which is exactly what happens after excessive cranking. Then after sitting for a while it will crank again and oil smells of gas heavily (meaning the gas made it passed the rings)

Still sound crazy?

---------- Post added September 1st, 2011 at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was August 31st, 2011 at 11:53 PM ----------

I got sick of wondering "what if" so often. So.. I currently have the harness removed from the vehicle, and I'm completely re-doing it. This will eliminate the wiring aspect of this problem. If the problem persists, it's either the sensors (crank was replaced, so one of the cam sensors) or a mechanical issue (the only one I can imagine would be the trigger wheel being incorrectly installed).

I'm going to:
-[DONE] Remove all unnecessary wiring (VSVs, Twin Turbo stuff, TRAC stuff, etc.)
-[DONE] Verify all of my extended wires to make sure everything is connected securely.
-Run completely new wires for the cam and crank sensors (I don't want any splices or extensions this time)
-Lay in the necessary wiring for PPS and heater control valve
-Going to run new wires for the coil packs, I think maybe I'll run shielded wire to avoid any signal crossover (thanks Dave)
-Re-wrap and tape entire harness (old wrap and tape was extremely brittle)

Am I missing anything? Any suggestions while the harness is out?

 

[91TurboDave]

Wow!!! Yeah those wires are definitely causing signal crossover!!!! Your pic speaks a million words. Replacing that harness should cure it...look at the location of the breaks...a 500mili volt crossover will cause stumble and misfire...and intermittent smooth out. Make sure you are checking your pin-out and do a resistance check, I believe those are 20g wires so your resistance at that length should be negligible. If it is over .5 ohms you have a bad solder joint or cheap wire. That should fix it for you. If not It will give a clean signal path and you can fault isolate it back. If it was crossing over too bad you may have burnt your CPS. I would check the Source voltage in, and the voltage out on a bench test if it still stumbles. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Wow!!! Yeah those wires are definitely causing signal crossover!!!! Your pic speaks a million words. Replacing that harness should cure it...look at the location of the breaks...a 500mili volt crossover will cause stumble and misfire...and intermittent smooth out. Make sure you are checking your pin-out and do a resistance check, I believe those are 20g wires so your resistance at that length should be negligible. If it is over .5 ohms you have a bad solder joint or cheap wire. That should fix it for you. If not It will give a clean signal path and you can fault isolate it back. If it was crossing over too bad you may have burnt your CPS. I would check the Source voltage in, and the voltage out on a bench test if it still stumbles. Let me know how it turns out.

(Dave, don't look now, but those weren't my pics! )

Dave, you are definitely a great guy to have in this thread! Thanks so much for your help. Is there a chart somewhere that can help me identify what resistance a certain gauge and length wire should have?

Thanks again!

 

[91TurboDave]

(Dave, don't look now, but those weren't my pics! )

Dave, you are definitely a great guy to have in this thread! Thanks so much for your help. Is there a chart somewhere that can help me identify what resistance a certain gauge and length wire should have?

Thanks again!

Sorry about that....here is a good baseline for electrical resistance...you may need to adjust a bit for different quality of wire...
http://www.radiolocman.com/shem/shem-cache.html?di=18899

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

Dave, do you have any pics? I just rewired my coil packs and added new clips last night. The wires were in bad shape. They were brittle and had cracks everywhere. I cut and solder them at the cam gears. Do you think that's ok?
This is what they looked like.

[/IMG]

Replace!!!!! REPLACE NOW!!!!!

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Thanks again, Dave!

 

[91TurboDave]

Remember Electricity is "Lazy" it takes its shortest path to ground...remember that, and a lot of things become clear.

 

[S.A. supra]

Lol sorry about that Ricky bobby.

Hey, Dave can I pm you a pic and you can tell me what you think of my repair. You shouldn't have put it out there that you know electricity.

Oh and Dave said some of his coil pack clips are broken. Correct me if I'm wrong Rick, but you said the white part that goes in between the two wires was broken or missing. Would it arc?

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Well I have ordered six new coil pack connectors, and two new CPS connectors just for my own sense of security (since I'm rebuilding the harness anyways..) oh and pins and seals for all of them.

Dave, does it sound reasonable to run shielded wire for the coil packs? Just from the main gathering of the harness to the coil packs themselves. Or would that be useless?

 

[Radial]

Wiring issues are very difficult to figure out, you just have to replace all thats's important to essential sensors and of course the Coils.
If you THINK you are having problems with arching against the cylinder head, try my solution with sparkplug cables:

The coilwires are "shieldeld" from stock with plastic-tubing... but all electrical wires slowly "dies" in the heat of an engine, no matter what quality the cable is. But if you just use some good quality cable, it should last 10's of years without problems.

 

[91TurboDave]

Lol sorry about that Ricky bobby.

Hey, Dave can I pm you a pic and you can tell me what you think of my repair. You shouldn't have put it out there that you know electricity.

Oh and Dave said some of his coil pack clips are broken. Correct me if I'm wrong Rick, but you said the white part that goes in between the two wires was broken or missing. Would it arc?

It should not arc...The white part should just be a guide for connection and to fight vibration in the connector. I believe each "pin" in those coil packs should have its own "socket" in the coil pack connector. I enjoy helping people That's why I put it out there that I know electricity. I am here to help....

 

[91TurboDave]

Well I have ordered six new coil pack connectors, and two new CPS connectors just for my own sense of security (since I'm rebuilding the harness anyways..) oh and pins and seals for all of them.

Dave, does it sound reasonable to run shielded wire for the coil packs? Just from the main gathering of the harness to the coil packs themselves. Or would that be useless?

The harness into the coil packs "Trigger" harness it would be a great idea to shield those wires. That circuit as well as the charging circuit are prone to EMF bleed and can cause signal cross over and "noise" in your system. A shield is a great way to shunt emf to ground RF frequencies will be clear as well. Having loom around the harness is great but it does not protect signal crossover between conductors. And if you have any breaks in your insulation the Signal crossover likelyhood goes up 10 times.... Hope it works out for you!

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Sounds great, thanks so much! Going to post some pics tomorrow of what I come up with. Just got done running brand new shielded wire from the ECU to the cam and crank sensors.. next is to run shielded wire for the coil packs like we discussed, lay in the PPS and heater valve wires, then to wrap up the harness.

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Ok.

Harness is all done. Removed all unused wires, re-wrapped, replaced a lot of clips.

How's it look?

Getting closer to diagnosing the problem. I got the car to at least run how it ran in the video, except smoother. The problem is, it will not run with the injectors plugged in. They simply spray too much fuel.

If I crank it, then stop, then disconnect all injectors, then crank.. it will run for a few seconds on what fuel is in there. Now, like I said, now that I've rebuild the harness somewhat, it is running super smooth for that 2-3 seconds it runs.

So, this is what I did..

I hooked up a fuel pressure test kit to the rail and I found that I'm getting 50PSI when the pump is on and the car is off. I'm not an expert but I feel this is really high? Should I just grab an adjustable FPR instead of trying to replace the stock one? Or is the stock one just not suited for an upgraded pump? Also, the needle on the gauge spikes 35-50PSI when cranking. Is this normal, because the injectors are spraying? However, shouldn't the fuel pump be able to provide enough volume to overcome the pressure drop from the injectors spraying?

Sorry for the weird questions. I'm just wondering if I have something wired wrong. Like for example, maybe I have the fuel pump only on at the ON position and off at the START position or something stupid like that. Not sure though. Will go through all of my connections a little later if that begins to seem probable.

Thanks!

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Nobody? Could really use some input. Thanks!

 

[91TurboDave]

I would definitely go with an Adjustable Pressure Regulator. You need one if you upgraded your pump. The stock one, especially if it is the original factory one, the diaphragm is probably bad. The pulse when you are cranking is the injectors firing and dropping pressure. The harness looks good by the way. Aeromotive produces a good kit for the 2JZ and I believe driftmotion.com has it the cheapest. Their gauge is a cheap Chinese one, suprasport.com has it with the liquid filled aeromotive gauge but it costs a bit more. I might check to make sure that your injector timing pulse is correct. You should be throwing a code if you are that rich as well. I would recommend a test of your O2 sensor, and get a wide band installed. At Idle I have mine set at 15.5 to 1. I run a Profect-A, an AEM EUGO, the AFPR, and GREDDY BCC and TSD. I dont have a fuel computer yet because I am on stock twins and they are good to 15 PSI. Let me know what you find.

 

[ifyouaint1sturlast]

Great advice Dave. Thanks so much. I'm going to order an AFPR now.

But..

I might check to make sure that your injector timing pulse is correct.

How would I do such a thing?

Thanks!