Alternator

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
I was thinking about getting the re-spun 152amp alternator from supra store for my car. Does anyone have this? I am thinking it will help in the future when I add my extra electronic engine monitoring devices so the electrical system is not under excess strain.
 

RiyadYar

Supramania Contributor
Nov 20, 2007
384
0
16
NY
is there any reason you recommend against this ,im curious because i recently installed a higher amperage alternator after I installed electronic fans
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
0
0
43
Fort Worth, TX
If it's producing more power, where is it coming from?

Think about it...

This is why e-fans "freeing up horsepower" is a crock. Nothing is free.
 

Backlash2032

New Member
Sep 20, 2010
1,823
2
0
Nebraska
Wouldnt it only use the power it needs though? Like say you have a 500 hp car that you DD... You aren't gonna use all 500 horsepower every day.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk
 

SeeUSmile

Member
Nov 22, 2012
249
0
16
Australia,Victoria,Melbourne
Well..... I do know we do have a 100amp pal fuse for the alternator so you'd blow that up.

But i'm no gurru with electrical so no idea what jj and P are getting at :S.

*edit took some time to read*

From what I researched, those "high output" alternators supply even less output at idle, then stock units and that is really what causes us most of the trouble.

Once you're idling or running low Rpm, if the alternator cannot keep up, your battery will discharge, thereby putting even further load on the alternator as it will try desperately to charge it back up. (the more discharged the battery is, the more current it takes from the alternator, leaving less for the rest of the car IE; lights, ignition system,radio,fuel pump etc).

So in the end you may be better off just with the stock alternator.
 
Last edited:

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
Poodles;1972885 said:
If it's producing more power, where is it coming from?

Think about it...

This is why e-fans "freeing up horsepower" is a crock. Nothing is free.

They produce more amps because the coils are larger and more of them tightly spun/wound together thus creating more amps for usable draw. So when you have your ac running, aftermarket stereo playing, lights on and all your engine management monitoring/management systems engaged it will take the strain away versus the stock unit that is rated to just cover the factory stuff. As for the e-fans I'm guessing that your referencing aftermarket double radiator fans, they offer better and more efficient cooling based on the less rotational mass and more fan blades flowing more air to the radiator compared to what the stock single fan pushes. I don't know about "freeing" up horsepower but they are less of a strain on the system over all.
 

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
SeeUSmile;1972902 said:
Well..... I do know we do have a 100amp pal fuse for the alternator so you'd blow that up.

But i'm no gurru with electrical so no idea what jj and P are getting at :S.

*edit took some time to read*

From what I researched, those "high output" alternators supply even less output at idle, then stock units and that is really what causes us most of the trouble.

Once you're idling or running low Rpm, if the alternator cannot keep up, your battery will discharge, thereby putting even further load on the alternator as it will try desperately to charge it back up. (the more discharged the battery is, the more current it takes from the alternator, leaving less for the rest of the car IE; lights, ignition system,radio,fuel pump etc).

So in the end you may be better off just with the stock alternator.

I understand draw/charge basics and the what not. I was talking to a guy that is using the 140amp driftmotion alternator and he says its been going strong for almost 4 years now and has had no battery/output issues at idle or otherwise. He also has yet to pop a fuse with the extra amps.
 

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
Backlash2032;1972895 said:
Wouldnt it only use the power it needs though? Like say you have a 500 hp car that you DD... You aren't gonna use all 500 horsepower every day.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

Exactly, thus having the higher amps for the continuous extra draw on the system from the aftermarket additions not to mention if you had any of your other stock systems engaged while driving (ac, lights a the sort).
 

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
I did some further research and found that the Alternator from SS is a good one but getting it is a pain not to mention other problems with the company. So I am going with the 140amp DM. I have heard nothing but good things about that company.
 
Oct 11, 2005
3,816
16
38
Thousand Oaks, CA
If the alternator stays the same size, more amps = less voltage at a given shaft speed. No way around it. Then there's the car wiring to the alternator.... what current do you think its designed for?
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
0
0
43
Fort Worth, TX
IchibanEye;1972946 said:
They produce more amps because the coils are larger and more of them tightly spun/wound together thus creating more amps for usable draw. So when you have your ac running, aftermarket stereo playing, lights on and all your engine management monitoring/management systems engaged it will take the strain away versus the stock unit that is rated to just cover the factory stuff. As for the e-fans I'm guessing that your referencing aftermarket double radiator fans, they offer better and more efficient cooling based on the less rotational mass and more fan blades flowing more air to the radiator compared to what the stock single fan pushes. I don't know about "freeing" up horsepower but they are less of a strain on the system over all.

First off, if you're running that much stuff, you have other issues. I can think of quite a few people running a TON of piggybacks and not having any issues at all with the factory alternator. Also, you're 100% wrong on aftermarket e-fans. Not better cooling, not more efficient, and they are more strain.

IchibanEye;1972948 said:
I understand draw/charge basics and the what not. I was talking to a guy that is using the 140amp driftmotion alternator and he says its been going strong for almost 4 years now and has had no battery/output issues at idle or otherwise. He also has yet to pop a fuse with the extra amps.

Anecdotal evidence means nothing.

IchibanEye;1972949 said:
Exactly, thus having the higher amps for the continuous extra draw on the system from the aftermarket additions not to mention if you had any of your other stock systems engaged while driving (ac, lights a the sort).

You do realize there is already quite a bit of overhead in the stock setup? This isn't an old muscle car with no electronics that you just stuffed a high power stereo and EFI on and now need the power...

jetjock;1972952 said:
Those posts are why I limited my response to one word...

I think I'm getting to your point... and I'm only 32. Think it's because I work in the industry...

3p141592654;1973032 said:
If the alternator stays the same size, more amps = less voltage at a given shaft speed. No way around it. Then there's the car wiring to the alternator.... what current do you think its designed for?

This too, forgot about that. Usually the OEM's run larger alternators to get the extra output (and/or different pulley sizes)
 

Dan_Gyoba

Turbo Swapper
Aug 9, 2007
1,836
0
0
Alberta
www.gyoba.com
3p141592654;1973032 said:
If the alternator stays the same size, more amps = less voltage at a given shaft speed. No way around it. Then there's the car wiring to the alternator.... what current do you think its designed for?
Not entirely true, since it isn't shaft speed that (entirely) determines the alternator output, but the strength of the magnetic fields in the stator allowed by the regulator, or else the voltage would rise out of control if you drove at high RPM without first turning on enough electrical accessories. However to create more amperage at the same voltage means more power produced, which means more power goes into the process. Well, since the voltage regulator determines voltage, then you cannot get more amps at less volts, so at the same size, the alternator can only do what it can do. If you change the windings, you can get more amperes at the same voltage, just with the higher cost. It also means more parasitic losses at lower power, shorter lifespan of the components in the voltage regulator, diode trio and ultimately the windings in the rotor and stator themselves. Also greater strain on the spindle bearings, but that's probably the least of the increased trouble. It was worthwhile to me to run the high output (At low RPM) alternator while my car was an IASCA SQ car. I pulled that alternator and replaced it with stock when I stopped competing, and noted an immediate and measureable increase in fuel economy. I didn't put it on a dyno, but I'd bet on a corresponding increase in RWHP.

Call me crazy, but the first step should REALLY be determining if you're having a charging system problem. It's simple, really. Put a voltage gauge on the system, and unless you're dropping below about 13.5V at 2000+ RPM, (and your battery is actually known good) your alternator isn't a problem.


As to the fan... It also takes power to move air. Yes, fan design can make a difference, but it comes down to putting power to the air to move it through the radiator. That power comes mostly from forward motion of the car, but when the car isn't moving fast, it comes from the fan blades. Now we can either take some straight from the already created mechanical power (In the case of the 7M, from a belt driven by the crankshaft, the 1JZ, from a fluid pump) or we can take it from electrical power, converted into mechanical power by a motor. But that electrical power comes from somewhere, in this case, the alternator, which converts the belt-driven mechanical power into electrical power. These conversions are lossy, both ways, meaning for the SAME AMOUNT of mechanical power put into the fan blades, thus into moving air, the electrical fan MUST draw MORE power from the crankshaft, if both are to perform the same task. We cannae change the laws of physics, Cap'n.

So, either the fan takes the same, or less power from the crankshaft, but moves less air, or it takes more power to do (maybe) the same work. Given that overheating is an issue with the 7M, I'd take the better cooling system
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
8,897
40
48
U.S.
www.ebay.com
First, he specified at a given speed....

Backlash2032;1972895 said:
Wouldnt it only use the power it needs though?

The viscous fluid in the fan clutch only uses what it needs. With heat, the fluid resists movement forcing engagement of the fan. Without heat, the clutch freewheels.
 

Insidious Surmiser

Formerly 89jdm7m
May 12, 2006
2,172
0
0
Oceanfront
jetjock;1972872 said:

definitely a good read. I understand where you're coming from JJ, but, you really ought to at least allude to what you've got in mind... anytime someone's told me no, my immediate reaction is to question why, if the answer eludes me, my reaction is to say no back.